Meeting WAS for first time. Any advice?

[MaxP]

Christa,

I'm still making my way through your crazy sitch 2 - I'm about half way through! Seems like there is much toing and frowing from your H.

There could be many reasons why he is not pushing for the D. He could be making a point that you started the breakdown so you must finish it. He could be undecided still, but excercising his feelings and flipping between viewpoints. It could also be financially beneficial for him to do nothing. He may just be lazy or plain scared to push the button. Inaction is easier than action. If he keeps changing his mind but is communicating still, then hopefully it's indecision that's stopping him.

With respect, from the LBS's perspective once you have been through this you know that no-one can promise that they will never leave again. You might have made that promise earlier in your R and have broken it. No-one has a crystal ball, just good intentions fixed at a particular point in time. In fact, it's not something that anyone can or should promise. You just hope that they will communicate and work to honour that intention for as long as it is reasonable to do so.

Do you believe you fully understand what lead you to the point of needing to leave? Can you be sure that those issues can be handled or dealt with if they came up again? He needs to understand what happened and why he didn't know what was going on. If he's anything like me, he will feel like he was never given a chance to help you or act to save things. Most of the time the LBS probably never realises the importance of what was going on in the pre-WAS's head. It is very important for the WAS to understand this, however much they feel that the message was clear. It is likely not to have been clear. How you deal with similar communication breakdowns in the future must be discussed and resolved. Finally, he needs to understand why you now feel differently. It will take time for him to believe it and that is where consistent actions will help.

I felt that my W said some really awful things to me and treated me like I didn't matter. I wanted to help so much once I realised what was going on, but it was too late for her. I could sense that much. I felt powerless, isolated and damned whatever I did. If I tried to fix things, it was too late and if I did nothing, I didn't care. That hurt me. I was left feeling that I had been publically betrayed and belittled. Just as the WAS feels trapped, responsible, lost / abandoned and that they have no other option but to leave. It is unfortunate that most of these problems could usually be fixed through improved communication, assuming that the will exists on both sides. That is the really sad thing.

Some of the things you say about him are very touching and powerful. Try to get him to understand that these are your beliefs. He will choose not to believe you, so once again we are back to actions + words.

With regard to my stich, my W has never given me any glimmer of hope since the bomb. My understanding of how she deals with things tells me that even if she changed her mind she would not act on that change. She always looks forward to new things, not fixing old problems. It's sad, because I can see her doing this again and again. Most of the time starting afresh does not deal with the issues from the past. They are ignored at ones peril. She tends to isolate herself over a long peroid of time, so doesn't seem to feel the pain as intensely as her partner. In her mind, it becomes their problem, not hers. As I have said before, the children issue becomes the final nail.

Do I still love her? Probably. I will live with the regret for a long time. This needn't have happened, but now it has. I know that we both need to shoulder some of the blame - but it was not all my fault.

I am not a spiritual or religoius person at all, but thank you for your good wishes in that direction. I'm glad that so many people here have their own faith to help them.

Finally, I have had an email. We will probably meet for a drink on Saturday. I will be very, very nervous.

Thanks,

Max

[MaxP]

Any last minute advice from people about my meeting tomorrow? WASs or LBSs all welcome.

[christarn]

Max~ calm, cool, collected! It never failed when H would want to meet he would say something to me that would get me fired up and I would lose my temper and it was on....i don't recommend that route!!

Act as if, no emotion, you are talking to one of the guys....it's hard...believe me i know, but but she may be wanting to see your "reactions"...if that makes sense!

it's tough...you will do great!!
keep us posted!!

thanks for all the input about how my H might be feeling..will be back later to make comments!!

good luck my friend!
Will say a prayer for you
christa

[alexjadams]

Do nothing different or new; just be the person you were, because in her mind it’s too late “you had your chance” don’t volunteer anything, don’t ask questions, let her pry & ask the questions give short answers, one to three word the most
Remember she is the one leavening so stay strong don’t breakdown, be the first to walk away or to end this meeting
Take control; get the attitude of “you are allowing this to happen” then end the meeting when it’s right (you will know when) don’t be needy and don’t hang around, exchange good byes get up and go once everything that needs to be discussed is discussed

[MaxP]

Christa:

Many thanks for the support. I'm going to try to keep the meeting as unemotional and relaxed as possible. I think we'll both be nervous, perhaps her even more than me. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

Alex:

Thanks for the input.

I don't intend to be overly emotional or to discuss anything about our R. I'll let her do the prying too but fully intend to be friendly. Good idea about making sure I have a reason to leave first, I think Christa mentioned something similar if the conversation goes in a direction I don't want it to. She always was very careful to try to keep control of these kinds of meetings after we separated.

It'll be an interesting meeting if nothing else.

I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Thanks,

Max

[christarn]

Always have an out, go 2 bathroom set ur phone 2 alarm if need be at say 8pm act like ur talkng 2 someone and its really important and you have to leave! You can even preset your phone to do this if need be! Just change your alarm tone to your ringtone and presto! You have an out! Wors awesome! Good luck max

[MaxP]

So, we met. We went for a drink together that lasted a couple of hours. We talked about family, work, mutual friends - basically caught up on each other's lives. No R talk other than a brief question from her about how I felt about meeting. No questions about Rs or other potential Rs either. All safe ground. I said I was nervous about meeting her but that it was more comfortable than I had expected. She said as time had gone on I had relaxed.

It was weird. When I met her where we arranged, it was like meeting a stranger. When we departed, it was different. It felt normal again. There is so much I had forgotten about her. I had forgotten just how tall and slender she is. I remember thinking at one point how cute she is too (she would hate that!). At one point she disagreed with me and did her usual put down that I hate - that raised a memory.

So it went pretty well. It was less emotional that I expected it would be for me. She said at the end if we want to meet again it would be ok. We kissed goodbye and then went our separate ways. No anger or strong emotion from either of us. It's possible we both felt a little sad.

I guess it's reminded me of how much I think we have lost, but how our approach has meant that friendship should be possible. That counts for something (well a lot really) and has been worth fighting for.

Who would have known we are married and hadn't seen each other for 9 months? Who would have known that there is no R there any more?

So I miss her and mourn for what we have lost. Just before we said goodbye a kid ran along near us, it made me think of futures lost. I feel a little low right now, sorrowful but calm and proud. Let's hope for the future, for who knows what that may bring.

It's been an odd day.

Take care all.

Max

[christarn]

Max~

I am glad it went well. You did a great job.

I am feeling for you today. I remember the "day after" days; when H and were talking and hanging out..the next day was always hard...the let down was difficult. I understand how you feel. I think it is great she brought up seeing you again. Good stuff there.

A good night kiss...nice touch!

"Let's hope for the future, for who knows what that may bring."

I am all for this...What a great outlook!

hugs max
christa

[Trixi]

Max, you did great.

You'll probably want a little time to reflect upon and process what happened, so I'll understand if you aren't prepared to answer this, but I am curious- did you accomplish what you hoped to accomplish and what sort of clarification did it add to your current situation and where you go from here?

And do you want to see her again?

I am so glad it went well for you-I'll be interested to see how this affects your outlook.

[MaxP]

Thank you Christa and Trixi. It's so great to have the support. I really, really appreciate it.

Well, unsurprisingly I can't sleep - but it's a beautiful dawn here, so there is some compensation. For once it looks like it might be a nice day weather wise, about time too!

I know that I will feel down for a few days, 'let down' is a good way of describing things. Trixi, you are right, it will take some time for me to process what I feel. In terms of clarification, it has provided some answers. I didn't once feel angry at her, which I really thought I might. It's brought back the feeling of how could we have let this happened? How stupid I was for dithering about things so much before the bomb and not letting her know how important she was to me and how committed I was. It's made me think that perhaps I stopped involving her in things and that started cutting her off. Most of all it makes me think how sad all this is, for both of us.

Do I want to see her again? Yes, quite clearly. So there's another answer. However, I'm very scared of the feeling that this will stay with me for a long time and be my life's big regret.

I think it's made me realise that I feel lonely, but in some ways that I want to be alone. Also, that I'm not doing enough to reconnect to people. I kept saying 'oh I haven't spoken to X for a long time but mean to', where as she has seen X, Y and Z.

We spoke a bit about my plans to emigrate to New Zealand. She's booked flights for a holiday there in November and will be seeing our friends. That's the point where I felt most down in our conversation. Divergent lives. Gosh, just typing that's made me feel really, really sad and upset. Wow. Emotions are crazy things.

I still think it's strange she see us as being so incompatible. I guess that's what she believes. She never once mentioned being in a relationship or saying something to indicate that she was, but I can't believe somehow that she isn't. I just can't see that that isn't the case. It's simply that it would not have been a good thing to have brought up. Gosh, who knows.

I definitely think that not seeing each other for so long has helped me and therefore a future friendship too. Whether it has hampered the idea of 'us' I don't know. I sometimes wonder whether she called it a day because I didn't fight for her. Was that the problem all along? She can just be so stubborn that I accept what I see and hear as fact. I was also very angry with her and didn't know what to do. Sometimes you just try as hard as possible to protect yourself. Everything centres on that.

I still have no indication of how this affects her. How seeing me will affect her. She always seems so together and gives nothing away. I still can't read her (a lesson for all WAWs), yet I can read most other people reasonably well. Is she happy? I think so. Has she moved on? Probably. It must be a good sign that she has said it's ok to do this again if I want.

Have I moved on? Well, I've moved somewhere - whether it is 'on', I'm not so sure. In some ways I've moved further than I expected, but in others far less so. I haven't let go of the past yet though. That much is clear. Where am I? Who knows!