For the Guy with kids and a WW 6

[hopeful4her]

I would have to say no.

But then again, I do not know this woman anymore. Like I said above, she has fuzzy logic.

But I have see no reason for her to run with them.

I was thinking that at one point, I would tell her, "You have let your relationship with Tom dictate how you treat me. That is just sad. You just do what what you feel is in your heart. I will just have to protect me and the girls as best I can."

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I would have to say no.

But then again, I do not know this woman anymore. Like I said above, she has fuzzy logic.

But I have see no reason for her to run with them.

I was thinking that at one point, I would tell her, "You have let your relationship with Tom dictate how you treat me. That is just sad. You just do what what you feel is in your heart. I will just have to protect me and the girls as best I can."

H4H,

I have noticed that you use your wife's boyfriend's first name when you talk to her about him, and that all of your convos with her about him are respectful of him -- almost deferential. While I do not recommend "running him down" (all the experts agree on this), as she'll only defend him, I DO think you give him TOO much respect.

I took to calling my wife's 28 year old boyfriend "the McCall kid." But you may want to just call him "your boyfriend."

Also, I hope you use the word "affair" frequently in your conversations with her. I haven't seen it at ALL in how you relate those conversations to use, and it's important that you call a spade a spade, and force the unfaithful spouse into a crucible. There, you cannot control what choice they will make, but you CAN have some success framing the "four corners of the box," so to speak.

(OK, so I just mixed my metaphors and implied that a crucible has four corners, but you catch my drift . . . )

Puppy

[hopeful4her]

I have referred to him as "him" mostly. Sometimes by his first name, or I have said boyfriend.

I will now start to refer to him as her "sancho". A hispanic term for what he is.

I use the word "cheated" or "cheating". Sometimes affair.

I had read to try not to talk bad about OM or name call. It would make her defend him.

I did purposely try not to use certain terms.

No more.

[hopeful4her]

I am home. Alone. I suppose roomie took D's to go swimming. I called just after I left work. No answer. I left no message. She called 10 minutes later.

"Hello?"
"Hi"
"I just wanted to find out if ya'll are going to eat out or at home?"
"We're going to eat at home."
"Ok, I'm on my way home. I'll get started cooking."
"Ok."
"Bye."

Very short. I want to talk to her. I said a few posts ago that I know that it will be me to have to keep up an R with her. Not catering to her. I find myself wanting her to expand on why she told me she can't talk to me. Belittling her? I refuse to have that relationship that she and her ex have.

I have the two routes to take. While she is still here at home. I can try to maintain the R by talking to her. Stay away from R talk. Try to get her to open up. TRY that is. Stay away from OM talk. I really think she is still confused. I know I am. I shouldn't be, because she has told me. But am I supposed to believe her?

I can't help thinking about the ones that get back together. Later. She has admitted to me before of the possibility. I see her defensivness. I want to sit her down and not talk at her. Talk to her. I'm going to try again. See what it brings. Thats why she she told the L to hold off on papers. She wants to see. Maybe after the 7 months. I know I am capable of drawing her out. The good in her. At least with me.

If not, then I know that I went all the way to the end.

Like I said, I am not going down without a fight. At least as long as she is here.

Is that wrong? I just knew that me pointing out things last night would get me nowhere. I knew I was not going to hear what I wanted to hear.

I know I'm hanging on. Kicking and screaming.

Wdid, you can see it in her, don't you. She just isn't going to realize it until she is moved out. And she IS going to have to go. She is weak. Like you were. It took you a while, but you realized.

[whatdidido]

I see it in her definitely. I still see hope. Her hesitation. Her crying. Her stalling of the papers. The lying and hiding....If she felt confident about it, she wouldn't be hiding things.

It took me awhile, BUT my H did nothing to confront me. If he had confronted me, as hard as it would have been, I would have had to face things sooner. Face what I was doing. He had made it easy on me. Too easy. If he could have been kind, but make me face what I did unjudgementally right away I would have come around sooner to wanting to try again. I knew that is what I wanted to do, but I needed him to show me that. You can't give up on her. My H never did. Ever. Even when I wanted him to. I wanted him to make it easier on me to leave, to give me an excuse, make it right (yours said this to). But, thank God he didn't.

I think another talk is good. The one you had before sounded heated. If you want to realllllly talk to her, you need to try to understand her and talk her through things without getting her defenses up. Everything she says she is feeling, but she knows something is not right. Something does not feel right. She knows she should not leave her marriage for someone else whether you guys make it or not. If she leaves her marriage it should be for her only and she should leave knowing she would be happier all by herself rather than being with you. She cannot think of you when she is with someone else. Obviously.

[hopeful4her]

THATS where I need to be. I don't want to make it easy on her. But I have to realize or at least believe that she is still moving out.

I have to talk to her. No, I need US to talk to each other. Once the defenses are up, no going around them.

I want to understand her. I really do. I just have to figure out a way to make her realize this.

I see it as not fighting for the marriage anymore. I am just fighting for us to keep a R. For us and our kids. I will never accept OM. She knows this. She can't be that stupid.

In her mind, she has no choice. A shot at happiness. She is not able to let that go.

They are so different, though. They really have no chance.

[hopeful4her]

And wdid, who knows how your H would have reacted if he KNEW about an OM. Might have been a completly different reaction.

[hopeful4her]

I have to talk to her. No, I need US to talk to each other. Once the defenses are up, no going around them.

I want to understand her. I really do. I just have to figure out a way to make her realize this.

Hey, I'm quoting myself. How dumb is that?

I just wanted to say that I know that I need to be able to do this with out coming across as needy or a pansy. Just getting her to talk it out.

Tricky line that I think I can pull off.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I have referred to him as "him" mostly. Sometimes by his first name, or I have said boyfriend.

I will now start to refer to him as her "sancho". A hispanic term for what he is.

I use the word "cheated" or "cheating". Sometimes affair.

I had read to try not to talk bad about OM or name call. It would make her defend him.

I did purposely try not to use certain terms.

No more.

You're right, you don't name-call, and you don't run him down. Just don't pay him too much deferential respect, either.

Remember when Bush 41 used to call "Suh-DOM", "SAD-'em"?? I always thought GHWB was just being an idiot, and then I learned later that he was doing it ON PURPOSE -- to not pay respect to his enemy.

Calling him "The Idiot" would be bad strategy.
Calling him "your boyfriend" is about right.
Calling him "Tom" is too deferential.

Make sense?

Puppy

[Puppy Dog Tails]

H4H,

There's nothing wrong with fighting for her. It's honorable, in fact, and righteous.

It's how you fight that some of us are trying to point out to you.

Puppy