Wow~ beautiful post ~B. I did cry and still have tears in my eyes. Thank you for being so brutally honest. I dunno how I missed your post this weekend? Anyway, I will post more later. By God, your Wife sounds like me. Brilliant as always ~B , just brilliant. Your Wife is indeed lucky to be married to such an enlightened Man. Will post more later my 3 kids are arguing.
I've just been reading through your latest posts. Absolutely awesome stuff.
When I started posting on this BB only a few months ago it was really with the aim of keeping alive and out here the things that I'd already learned, and trying to help others facing the problems that I'd faced.
Doing this has had the added benefit of cementing my own personal recovery.
But ... what I have been truly shocked by, is the many totally new things I have learned from you, DQ, Alimari and the others now posting here. Ideas that I have very much taken on board and believe will help my own marriage grow and change in exciting and pleasurable ways.
So, congratulations on the amazing work you have put into your marriage, Bagheera, and very many thanks for sharing it all with us.
S&A
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.
Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
So to the other question...yes, I agree that basically no one is 100% straight or gay, we all fall somewhere in the middle...but this is a dangerous thing to say out loud to people who may be very insulted at the idea that they are not 100% straight (trust me, I have had that conversation so many times, I finally learned not to freak people out with a new idea like that - LOL!)
I agree with your statement here, DQ, and it reminded me of Shere Hite's books on male and female sexuality, in which BOTH the men and the women revealed that their earliest adolescent sexual encounters often involved members of the same sex. At the time, it was implicitly understood that these close friends were just 'temporary surrogates' for members of the opposite sex, but such encounters still frequently occur -- and are never brought up or admitted to again.
I've thought sometimes that my own strong heterosexuality has bit me in the butt in that it has reinforced my ingrained pathogenic belief from childhood that Nice Girls Don't (desire or enjoy sex). This is because I have a very hard time seeing men as sexually attractive. Over the years, I've learned to recognize what women find attractive, but I don't get it at all. And since I personally find other men very unattractive, when I'm was feeling very down about my marriage and relationship with my wife, it was easy for me to believe that she didn't find men (particularly me) sexually attractive either. This notion was, of course, completely and utterly false. She's about as heterosexual as I am, and loves to look at and appreciate men. In general, however, I think that women can recognize and appreciate the beauty and sex appeal of other women far easier than men can recognize these qualities in other men.
On a more specific note: I've always had a hard time understanding how a woman can find the male genitalia attractive or even beautiful. I've read that the reviews from women are a little more mixed in this department, but I've recently learned that I'm one of the lucky men married to a woman who does consider them lovely. I'll never get it, but can certainly enjoy it.
So, in the context of the above two observations, I actually wish I was a little less hetero: at least to the point of being able to see the world better through the eyes of my wife. A final example: last summer, I grew a short-cropped, neatly trimmed beard (a first for me). However, I think it ultimately makes me look older and uglier, while my wife likes me better with it -- all the women I know gave it good reviews. Go figure....
I kept it.
Bagheera
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Baggy - that is interesting, and my ex-h felt similar to you, in that he did not find the male anatomy (ie: his own body) to be sexually appealing at all. I found this created a problem for us, actually. But I'll put more on that on my thread...
But to you I would ask, because this is the type of discussion I enjoy bringing out in people....being that you are hetero, even to a fault...can you explain why a hetero man would enjoy porn which includes men with huge members? I have always thought that straight men would understand that it is at least a tiny bit non-straight for them to enjoy seeing a big' ol stick in porn. They obviously do enjoy it (not saying you do or not, just saying men in general) and the reason I conclude that they enjoy it is this:
*Men make/produce porn, for men (market is 90% men)
*Most porn of man-on-woman features only men with big ones
*Therefore, men making porn for the enjoyment of other men are the ones who are deciding that the enjoyment will include big ones.
Is this a sensible question to ask? Why are there no short skinny sticks in porn, if in fact, the men watching are not wanting to see big ones? And please try not to answer as if it is somehow inherent or normal for the sticks to be big...this is a serious question to straight men: why do you want to see a huge penis? Straight men will squirm and try to not answer this question or to deflect it (and I know this because I have brought this issue up to many straight men). But it isn't logical that it is not a choice for these men watching porn that they are also CHOOSING to see big sticks.
???
See how confusing that is? Especially to someone who is bi, and so it makes much more sense to me that a man would want to see a big stick...but only if he can understand his own "little amount of non-hetero" thoughts within himself.
If you don't want to answer, then I'm going to just call you a queer and drop it.
(joke) :0)
As for the beard, cool! I love beards, but that is a totally personal choice, some women hate them.
But to you I would ask, because this is the type of discussion I enjoy bringing out in people....being that you are hetero, even to a fault...can you explain why a hetero man would enjoy porn which includes men with huge members? I have always thought that straight men would understand that it is at least a tiny bit non-straight for them to enjoy seeing a big' ol stick in porn.
The answer is actually an easy one: transference, in the context of a fantasy. While watching that kind of porn, the guy is fantasizing that it is HIM that is taking that girl, and of course, he wants to take her with a fantasy-sized member! At the least, the guy is wishing that it was him, even if he isn't fantasizing at that moment: he's identifying with the guy in the film.
I guess I'll also add that most healthy folks need to be able to find their own genitalia, and those of their own sex, appealing and perhaps even beautiful, WITHOUT being sexually attracted to the owner. Call it appreciation, rather than sexual attraction. Thus, I can admire a well-built male member, or even think of it as magnificent in size and form, but NOT feel any desire to do anything sexual with it. So while I said above that I don't understand my wife's sexual attraction to men or their tools, I can still appreciate or admire the beauty and the form of some of them.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Not buying it, Baggy. You are just telling yourself the stories that straight men tell themselves because they aren't getting the "real" story straight. But ... that's just my opinion....based on talking to literally dozens of men and getting anything from your answer above to the more honest "I want to see big ones because they turn me on".
guess I'll also add that most healthy folks need to be able to find their own genitalia, and those of their own sex, appealing and perhaps even beautiful, WITHOUT being sexually attracted to the owner.
Good point ~B. But see I want to understand how in the porn industry it is a Fantasy to be thick.... Shoot I am trying not to be so thick and juicy... Acceptance.... ~Ali.... and then in the "real" world it is somehow a priceless gift to have your spine showing and wear a size zero.
I mean I know this is not Beauty.. beauty is in the eye of the beholder... but I just thought it would be an interesting new topic...
I get more looks from MEN... when I go to lunch with my coworkers who are a size 2.... Go figure... ? ~Ali
Acceptance.... ~Ali....