For the Guy with kids and a WW 6

[whatdidido]

Let me just say AGAIN that you need to stay away from another woman right now. Are you making phone calls to other women? WOuld you be comfortable telling your W you are doing this and that other women are calling you? I don't mean to be harsh, I just don't want you to get in the situation I did. You are a prime candidate for getting in trouble here. The whole innocent flirting thing would normally be fine.....but right now......I got this "uh oh" feeling when I read it.

I hope your evening is a success.

[hopeful4her]

Well, the conversation came a little earlier than expected.

Roomie got home. Picked up some things from wallymart for girls. She then told them it would be a project. For their beds. The girls ask if they are taking the beds with them. Roomie says yes. Roomie is in kitchen getting something to eat.

I ask, "You are taking the beds?"
"Yes."
"Why. They should stay here.?
"Where are they going to sleep?"
"The girls are not going to live with you."
"Yes they are."
"No, they are going to live with US. Both of us. Equal time."
She looks at me.
"Keeps the beds. We'll start from scratch."
"Come talk to me" as I point to bedroom.

We kind of lay on bed. Facing each other. I am explaining 50/50 to her. Again.
"Then I guess we have to let the lawyers handle it."
I asked if she understood. It is what the girls deserve. Both of us equal time. She kept asking what that meant. One week, two weeks? I tell her it is up to us to decide what we think is best.

What followed gets kind of hazey.

I tell her that I guess I have to do what I have to do. I start to ask her questions. Does she have any intention of giving OM up? She says that it has nothing to do with anything. She starts to say I belittle her. She can't talk to me. I ask her to give examples, because I don't see it. I tell her that I get angry at what she is doing with OM. How could I not. She tells me that I throw things at her. I say, "What?!"

Like the charger. I was just charging...
"What you secret affair phone?"
"I have other peoples number on it."
"How come I don't know the number?"
"Because I'm not ready to give it to you."
"Well lets see it. Lets see what is on it. Go get it."
Blank look. "No."
"I thought so."

I ask her again, "Tell me. Honestly. You can't or you won't give him up?"
"It makes no difference."
"Yes, it does."
She doesn't want to be with me. She doesn't want to work on us. I tell her that I want to be able to tell myself and my kids that I tried everything. She said, "Well, I guess I won't be able to say that. You'll be the hero."
"I don't want to be the hero. I just want to be a good dad."
"About F'ing time!"

I tear into her. How she wants to change everything about us. About me to justify what she is doing. I tell her my relation with our kids is not based on "doing" stuff with them. Its about BEING with them. Being there for them. To support them. To love them. Tell them I love them, and be able to show my affection to them. Its not about going out and taking them somewhere or going out and throwing a ball. More to it than that. How her reality in her head is not always the reality outside her head.

"How did you expect me to act with you cheating and flaunting it?"
"I don't flaunt it."
"You do. And HOW do you expect me to take it? To act?"
Pause
"I guess the way you are."
"What did you really expect me to do when I found out?"
"I guess I thought that you would divorce me. And you didn't."
I go into how my faith has kept me going.

"You try to be high and mighty and righteous."
"I only try to live my life right. If that is how you define righteous, then maybe I am. I try to live by my faith. I do NOW. It took a while. You helped me find it."

I again tell her about trying everything she can to try. She doesn't want to. I tell her to do it for herself. For me. For our family. Our kids. Her family. My family. There are too many consequences to her decision.

I do some more talking. She says that I just can't believe that she doesn't want me anymore. I told her that I don't want the rest of her life. Just a few months to see. I ask why she supposedly told her L to not send the D papers. Why? She could not answer. I tell her to be honest. Why wait. "I guess there is not need to wait anymore" she says. I keep asking. Why?

"I can't answer your question." I say "You can, you just don't want to say."


Back and forth. I told her that I will not budge on 50/50. Anything less, then I will fight for full custody. She tells me not to threaten. I tell her it is not a threat. She says bring it on.

I then go into asking why she is so dead set on not having a friendship.

"You don't want to end it with OM?" No.

"You want to be a part time parent?"
"I'm not going to be a part time parent."
"No matter how you look at it, we are both going to be part time parents. Now matter how custody ends up. Part time parents."
"You are deciding to end the friendship? It was your choice, and you have just choked it to death."
"You don't want to work on us and..."
"I do NOT want to do anything with us."
I pause.

"Are you going to end it with Tom?"
"I don't want to."
Pause.
"Then, now we know."
I am up and leave the room.

I sit with girls watching tv. D11 looks upset. She knows we were "talking". Roomie comes in later to wash dishes. I go take a shower. Roomie sets up to watch a movie with D's in living room. Everyone on floor. I get on computer to check accounts.

Roomie comes in. "Where is the clock that you wind up?"
"I don't know" with out looking back at her or missing a beat on computer.

That means she is no longer going to be in our bed.

I believe we are done. I do not have the funds to D her. If she tries to take custody, then I will beg and borrow if I have to. Because of her illness last year, my credit is shot to hell. Bad.

I will have to talk to my parents. Let them know the full story. Let them know that I might not get custody. That will get them to help me.

I am not sad, yet. I am pretty calm. It was surreal.

You keep waiting for the light to go off, but it never does.

I'll probably be sad tomorrow. Have to be strong, though.

[hopeful4her]

Another thing. At one point, she says to me, "You won't be able to eat cake anymore."

????????!!!!!

I have to explain to her that SHE is the cake eater. I did not go outside the marriage and cheat. SHE is the one living two different lives. SHE is the cake eater. I asked her who told her that. HIM?! Get your definitions correct.

I also asked her why she hated me. She looks at me and pauses. "I don't hate you."
"Your actions tell me something else. You hate being with me. You CRINGE when I'm around."
"I hate being HERE. Besides I defend you."

??????

"To who. HIM?"

She changed the subject.

[hopeful4her]

wdid, at one point, we did talk about B before. Months ago. I asked her if she thought that I would cheat on her.

"I wouldn't blame you if you did" was her response.

I told her it was nice to get the attention of others.

She said, "They care about you. Maybe they worry about you."

[whatdidido]

Well, the conversation came a little earlier than expected.

WISH IT COULD HAVE BEEN MORE OF A PLANNED MEETING BUT THIS MAY HAVE BEEN THE ONLY WAY.

Roomie got home. Picked up some things from wallymart for girls. She then told them it would be a project. For their beds. The girls ask if they are taking the beds with them. Roomie says yes. Roomie is in kitchen getting something to eat.

I ask, "You are taking the beds?"
"Yes."
"Why. They should stay here.?
"Where are they going to sleep?"
"The girls are not going to live with you."
"Yes they are."

RED FLAG- SHE IS STILL HOPING YOU WILL LET THEM LIVE WITH HER ALL THE TIME? SHE SAID ONCE CHILDREN SHOULD BE WITH THEIR MOTHERS. UH OH.

"No, they are going to live with US. Both of us. Equal time."
She looks at me.
"Keeps the beds. We'll start from scratch."
"Come talk to me" as I point to bedroom.

We kind of lay on bed. Facing each other. I am explaining 50/50 to her. Again.
"Then I guess we have to let the lawyers handle it."

YEP SHE IS GOING FOR FULL CUSTODY.

I asked if she understood. It is what the girls deserve. Both of us equal time. She kept asking what that meant. One week, two weeks? I tell her it is up to us to decide what we think is best.

What followed gets kind of hazey.

I tell her that I guess I have to do what I have to do. I start to ask her questions. Does she have any intention of giving OM up? She says that it has nothing to do with anything. She starts to say I belittle her.

AVOIDANCE.

She can't talk to me.

BLAME.

I ask her to give examples, because I don't see it. I tell her that I get angry at what she is doing with OM. How could I not. She tells me that I throw things at her. I say, "What?!"

Like the charger. I was just charging...
"What you secret affair phone?"
"I have other peoples number on it."
"How come I don't know the number?"
"Because I'm not ready to give it to you."
"Well lets see it. Lets see what is on it. Go get it."
Blank look. "No."
"I thought so."

GOOD JOB, H4H. REALITY CHECK FOR HER.

I ask her again, "Tell me. Honestly. You can't or you won't give him up?"
"It makes no difference."

AVOIDANCE

"Yes, it does."
She doesn't want to be with me. She doesn't want to work on us.
I tell her that I want to be able to tell myself and my kids that I tried everything. She said, "Well, I guess I won't be able to say that. You'll be the hero."

AVOIDANCE OF THE REAL ISSUE. CONDESCENDING AS WELL.

"I don't want to be the hero. I just want to be a good dad."

AND YOU LOVE HER AND YOU THINK THAT YOU AND YOUR KIDS DESERVE ONE LAST CHANCE.

"About F'ing time!"

I tear into her. How she wants to change everything about us. About me to justify what she is doing. I tell her my relation with our kids is not based on "doing" stuff with them. Its about BEING with them. Being there for them. To support them. To love them. Tell them I love them, and be able to show my affection to them. Its not about going out and taking them somewhere or going out and throwing a ball. More to it than that. How her reality in her head is not always the reality outside her head.

"How did you expect me to act with you cheating and flaunting it?"
"I don't flaunt it."
"You do. And HOW do you expect me to take it? To act?"
Pause
"I guess the way you are."

GOOD JOB.

"What did you really expect me to do when I found out?"
"I guess I thought that you would divorce me. And you didn't."

AND WHY DIDN'T I DIVORCE YOU? BECAUSE I LOVE YOU AND I BELIEVE YOU LOVE ME TOO AND I BELIEVE WE CAN MAKE IT THROUGH ANYTHING WITH GOD'S HELP.

I go into how my faith has kept me going.

"You try to be high and mighty and righteous."
"I only try to live my life right. If that is how you define righteous, then maybe I am. I try to live by my faith. I do NOW. It took a while. You helped me find it."

GOOD JOB.

I again tell her about trying everything she can to try. She doesn't want to.

A CHOICE SHE WILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH....HER CHOICE TO LEAVE HER FAMILY FOR ANOTHER MAN WITHOUT TRYING ONE MORE TIME.

I tell her to do it for herself. For me. For our family. Our kids. Her family. My family. There are too many consequences to her decision.

WAIT. DID SHE SAY THERE ARE TOO MANY CONSEQUENCES TO HER DECISION? SHE NEEDS TO TALK ABOUT THOSE CONSEQUENCES THEN AND YOU NEED TO TALK HER THROUGH HOW YOU WILL WORK THROUGH THEM.

I do some more talking. She says that I just can't believe that she doesn't want me anymore. I told her that I don't want the rest of her life. Just a few months to see.

GOOD.

I ask why she supposedly told her L to not send the D papers. Why? She could not answer. I tell her to be honest. Why wait. "I guess there is not need to wait anymore" she says. I keep asking. Why?

"I can't answer your question." I say "You can, you just don't want to say."

OK HERE ....NOT SURE ABOUT THIS. THE REASON SHE MAY HAVE HAD THE D PAPERS SENT IS BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO HAVE THIS NEW PLACE AND NEW INCOME SO SHE CAN FIGHT FOR THE KIDS. IM NOT TRUSTING HER NOW.


Back and forth. I told her that I will not budge on 50/50. Anything less, then I will fight for full custody. She tells me not to threaten. I tell her it is not a threat. She says bring it on.

I then go into asking why she is so dead set on not having a friendship.

"You don't want to end it with OM?" No.

YOU JUST GOT YOUR ANSWER.

"You want to be a part time parent?"
"I'm not going to be a part time parent."
"No matter how you look at it, we are both going to be part time parents. Now matter how custody ends up. Part time parents."

GOOD YOU GOT THAT IN.

"You are deciding to end the friendship? It was your choice, and you have just choked it to death."

DON'T LISTEN TO THIS. THAT IS RIDICULOUS.

"You don't want to work on us and..."
"I do NOT want to do anything with us."
I pause.

OK, HER CHOICE VERBALIZED CLEARLY.

"Are you going to end it with Tom?"
"I don't want to."
Pause.

I DON'T WANT TO........THAT IS NOT A DEFINITE NO.........

"Then, now we know."
I am up and leave the room.

I sit with girls watching tv. D11 looks upset. She knows we were "talking". Roomie comes in later to wash dishes. I go take a shower. Roomie sets up to watch a movie with D's in living room. Everyone on floor. I get on computer to check accounts.

Roomie comes in. "Where is the clock that you wind up?"
"I don't know" with out looking back at her or missing a beat on computer.

That means she is no longer going to be in our bed.

THAT IS NOT YOUR FAULT. THAT IS HER CHOICE. SHE IS NOW BLAMING YOU..MAKING YOU FEEL THAT BECAUSE YOU FOUGHT WITH HER SHE IS OK TO BE MAD AT YOU. LET HER GO. SHE NEEDS TO FEEL HER CHOICE.

I believe we are done.

NOPE. NOT YET.

I do not have the funds to D her. If she tries to take custody, then I will beg and borrow if I have to. Because of her illness last year, my credit is shot to hell. Bad.

I will have to talk to my parents. Let them know the full story. Let them know that I might not get custody. That will get them to help me.

I am not sad, yet. I am pretty calm. It was surreal.

You keep waiting for the light to go off, but it never does.

I'll probably be sad tomorrow. Have to be strong, though.

YES STAY STRONG AND FOLLOW THROUGH. YOU DID WELL. IM SORRY ABOUT HOW PAINFUL AND AWFUL THIS IS.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

H4H,

Kudos to you for nutting up and confronting her with the conversation, and for leading it (pointing to the bedroom to talk).

The problem you're having is, "you can't TEACH an adulterer." That whole conversation (and you handled yourself very well, by the way, and got in some great truth darts) could have been condensed to:

H4H:

I need to make some decisions. I love you, and I don't want to divorce, but I won't live in an open marriage. What are your intentions here?"

Her:

I don't think we have a chance.

H4H:

I don't think you've GIVEN us a chance, to work on our marriage, when you've unilaterally decided to invite a third person into it. Are you willing to end it with him, and come back and work on our marriage with me?

Her:

I don't want to -- and he has nothing to do with us.

H4H:

He is not the only marital problem we had, no -- but he is absolutely the immediate obstacle. I cannot live in an open marriage. I'll ask you again: are you willing to end all contact with him -- forever -- and come back and try to work on our marriage with me?

Her:

I don't know what I want to do. I don't want to be with you.

H4H:

Well thank you at least for being honest with me. I guess I have some decisions to make.

And leave the room.

I also am concerned about her legal intentions, and how far along she is in her Plan. This is why I wanted you to do this MONTHS ago, and take control of the agenda, the timeline, and the endgame.

Puppy

[hopeful4her]

Guys, in a way, she is confused. She says that they are going to be living with her, but splitting time.

I was trying to explain to her how it works. Half the time with her, half the time with me. Timeline is up to us.

She even said, "They ARE going to live with me. They are going to split time between you and me."

I told her that she just said it. "It's the same thing. You might tell yourself that they are living with you, but they are not. They are living with you and me." It was HEARING it that threw her off. She has fuzzy logic.

I am the one that told her about the consequences. I WISH she would realize the consequences.

About the D papers. After the Saturday that she told me she had found the apartment and all the drama with my kids. We talked on Monday. A nice conversation. She had told me about borrowing the money for an attorney. Then another conversation Tuesday night
went a little different. Getting heated, she was telling me to just wait. She tried to warn me. Papers are on the way. Later in the night, us talking more calmly, she tells me how she had the L draw up the D papers, but called her to hold off on sending them. To wait out at least the next 7 months that she is signing the lease. "But don't push me" she told me.

I was trying to get her to say that she wanted to see if any feelings would change for her. For us.

And it was I that told her that SHE was DECIDING to end the friendship. She had choked it to death already.

She is a very stubborn woman. At some point, I am hoping that she was just saying sh** just to say sh**. Her stubborness.

[hopeful4her]

I slept pretty well, last night.

This morning, I wake up early, but just lay in bed. I'm thinking that she probably set her clock wrong. Probably not going to go off. It goes off 30 minutes early. I laugh to myself. Dork. I stay in bed. I hear her moving around. She come into the bedroom and before going into the bathroom, she looks over to me. I guess to see if I'm still asleep. I pretend to be sleeping. I get up. I avoid her. No words. As I'm ironing, the puppies start going crazy outside. She comes into the laundry room, "Are the puppies out? I can hear them."
"I dunno." I keep on ironing.

When I get out of bathroom myself, she had made up the bed.
????

This morning, she also made the coffee and breakfast for the girls.

Girls are still on the floor of the living room where they all fell asleep last night. Both of us ready to go, she goes to kiss them goodbye. She also wakes them to tell them goodbye. That is not normal. She would not normally wake them. I am sitting on sofa watching them. D6 wakes up and gets up and comes to lay on me. Roomie walks by me and says, "See you later."
"Bye."
With D6 laying and snuggling me, she is closing door behind her, she looks one more time.

"Bye Juli."
Sleepy, "Bye momma."

On my way to work, several of those trucks are passing on the other side of the state hwy. The public service system that OM works for. About 5 trucks, every 2 minutes or so.

I shot the finger at every one of them.


I feel good.

[hopeful4her]

Just found out by calling D's. Roomie getting off early today. Like around 1pm. Not sure why. I hate not knowing what is going on. They are supposed to go swimming at MIL's subdivision. I was planning on taking them to Spectrum after I get off.

We'll see if I am invited.

[whatdidido]

She would never take off with them would she?