"Deal with it"... I've heard that. "Well, you figure it out, I'm not going to tell you" is another, when I ask her how she'd like things to be, what goals we can make.
It's all variations on defensiveness, as you've pointed out. My W, the conflict avoider, always just wants the issue to go away, or to simply drop the uncomfortable topic. The result is often a dismissive, cutting, cynical, sarcastic, mean comment. It's her way of "winning". I used to accuse her of using offense as her primary defense. Of course, that was my "last word" in the dance of trying to win. One thing I've learned is that if you stop trying to win, the idea of a battle is diminished, and the defensiveness begins to moderate. Then, it becomes easier to express feeling and have them accepted.
I was finally able to tell her that her dismissive zingers hurt in councelling. I was able to tell her how frustrated and angry being dismissed made me feel. And, I was able to extract and agreement from her that it was OK for me to point out to her when I felt she was dismissing me. And she usually now moderates herself when I call her on it.
Wow, I go away for the weekend and figured I would be on page 5. I am glad to see that my views on my W issues are being validated.
Yes, yes she has spending issues/addiction. Someone else finally sees it too. Yes, yes she is not a "truly" happy person. She struggles with how she looks, her place in life, etc. She doesn't have any "real" friends. She has a mediocere R with her family. Her F died suddenly 6 mo ago tomorrow. I am just now really working at "supporting" correctly her many needs that are caused by her "difficulties". Yes, she has "issues". Judging it as an addiction would make it no easier for me to comprehend. People need to quit treating the syptoms and start treating the problem. Her "problem" is low self-esteem with a dash of depression. How she can solve it will be explained quite simply in the next paragraph.
Her view of her life has been getting better since I became more supportive (including supporting things I am dead against). I think the reason I get the "deal with it" line is because she is doing all that she "thinks" she can. She limits her potential by not giving full effort or by not completing a task. She must see it as better to have failed by not giving full effort and blaming it on that versus giving full effort and that not being good enough. I have recently brought this to her attention. I effectively said to quit leaving yourself an excuse for not succeeding instead of having no excuse for not succeeding. "If you have so many things going on in your life how are you going to do any of them well." This caused her to break into her "nothing is ever good enough for you" speech. I said, "No, that is not is it. No one could do all of the things you do, well." "You are not super-human." As our R gets stronger she can actually "hear" what I say instead of going on the defensive immediately.
I wish she was "closer" with her family or had a "best" friend other than me to help her through things. Similar to many other things I am involved in, I will probably have to handle this myself also. The saving grace is the increased respect I get from my W lately. This is causing a lot of things to improve slightly.
Great weekend on the lake for the whole family. We all skied and are not too sore today. I call that a success.
I just posted to Stillreeling about his sitch and the words being said to me by my W. In my last several posts I have talked about my waning patience and tolerance. At the same time I was being very direct to my W in regards to what I want out of our M. Asking for what we want and need isn't a crime. It has actually brought us closer together lately. She has been saying many wonderful things to me and about our future. At the same time she has had revelations about why she has made things hard on herself with her actions. Those statements felt far better than the compliments she gave me. The admission of error is step one of correction. She has even given me credit for halping her to understand how to make her life easier. She sent me a prose piece called "The Awakening" (way to long to post here, but I am sure e-mail will get it to you soon) that describes that point in your life when you understand and find true happiness. She has found hers she says.
We are teaching an "Engagement Enrichment" class this a.m. for about 50 engaged couples. Our topics are commitment and communication. We intro ourselves and tell the class "you don't want Mr Rogers teaching a drug abuse class, you want a former drug addict, right? You also don't want Ward and June Cleaver teaching a M class, so that is why we are here". That is a good ice breaker but very truthful as well. We have taught this class for 5 years and every year it gets easier and we have more experiences to share. We give them the "real deal" not some rosey picture of "happily ever after". We have a lot of fun with the group and usually get excellent feedback and much appreciation for telling them how it really is and how to survive it. By the way, I had lunch with that client who was having M problems and it looks pretty damn bleak. His said his W is way done with him but I told him not until the D is final and maybe not even then is it "over". He is doing a lot of good things but it looks pretty bad. He doesn't think there is any infidelity but the circumstances would have me doubting that. I didn't address that though.
This week at work (disrespectful employees, deadlines)and with MIL (hasn't taken care of headstone, too busy with new boyfriend) has been truly stressful. At least all is well at home and next week I am off for another vacation. This time there is no outside family, no pageant, and no plans. Just the five of us having fun. Good week to reflect and enjoy what we have, each other.
Watch for that "The Awakening" e-mail to show up in your mailbox soon.
You wrote, "At the same time I was being very direct to my W in regards to what I want out of our M. Asking for what we want and need isn't a crime. It has actually brought us closer together lately."
JJ and Phoenix wrote on my thread about doing what is uncomfortable can have positive results. When did you finally speak up? When your W recommited to your marriage working or before? Here is my thread: Let Go & Let God nik
I was pretty demanding for most of this journey. I "busted" her every chance I got on "inappropriate" behavior and said many time what I thought was acceptable. It went over like a lead balloon early on but as she got of her "fog" it started to work but it must only be applied in small doses. You can't "rag", just state how you feel or how what they do hurts you. We tend to be very over-sensitive right now so use it sparingly. I typically didn't do it until I was fed up with the B.S. (ex. her not trying, unremorseful, very selfish, etc.)
To more accurately answer your question, I really used demands the most when I didn't care whether it made her leave or not. I refused to be a doormat once I knew what that meant. My ego is way too big for that. In fact, when she thought my requests were too much I just told her "well that is what I want and I won't accept any less". She knows that I am goal orientated and won't settle so she knew i was serious. Please don't think it is a guarantee. You have to be comfortable with potential consequences as well. It may be as small as a little silent treatment or as big as the big D so be prepared. You can't just back down from these kind of requests. once they are made they must stand.
Our enagagement class went awesome. Every time it si easier and more comfortable. You can tell that some people really connect with what you are saying. There is also a small group that don't give a sh** what you say. I guess they just want to find out the hard way. Whatever, you can lead a horse to water.....
Anyway, I hope that helps Nik. Keep me posted on your progress. Always remember to be faithful, especially to yourself.
Thanks for your reply. My update is on my thread, too long to go into details here; however, I think we are slowly getting there. H initiated a "date" last week and we have plans to go to a baseball game on labor day. H has also started to include me on running errands that he could do alone.
Glad to hear your class went well. I hope if H and I "make it" that we will use our experience to help others just as you are. I would love to help out with Retrouvaille as we attended it in jan. nik
