You know what I could do?. Skip this upcoming vacation. Her M and SIL can take care of the boys for the week. I could stay here and party like a rock star, blow coin like a billionaire, trash the house like my kids, and pick up women like a Calvin Klein model. That would shake things up all right.
She just called and said the bank was looking for her corporate tax return. I said "do you remember the 20 times I asked you for those "lost" credit card statements? I won't do it until you get me that info and you know that? She said "well, weren't they due already?", "Yes, but I am not going to sign false documents, should I?" , "No". I asked her when she is going to get the info. She had the nerve to say I don't know. I am wrapping up projects prior to our vacation and she has the nerve to pull this crap. I am absolutely fuming. "My friends and C have told me to let you be responsible for your actions and this is what I get. It always, always becomes my problem. How fair is that? This is exactly why I have to monitor everything, because I am always responsible to fix it. This is why I get irriatated when you don't focus on your business. How can I support you in other things when you don't take care of your responsibilities? I can't because I end up cleaning up the mess."
We always end up in the same place, except this time. She agreed to go to a C when we get back from Cali. I told her it would take more than one visit. She acted cool to it. I asked wht is so wrong with seeing a C. She said it is degrading. What is up with that? I told you she had pride issues. I have been begging for this opportunity for a long time. We need a mediator to give us direction. I am expecting nothing but glad to have the chance.
I am tired and stressed and crabby but probably will go to Cali. I sometimes think of being a WAH but know that my difficulties with her would never end as she is the M of my boys. D would settle none of our problems. With younger kids involved my last statement is pretty universal. Both parents are still responsible for the kids and financing their lifestyles D or not. We are definitely making progress in how we relate to each other and hopefuuly the C will help us fully remove ourselves from this rut.
Quote: I said "do you remember the 20 times I asked you for those "lost" credit card statements? I won't do it until you get me that info and you know that? She said "well, weren't they due already?", "Yes, but I am not going to sign false documents, should I?"
tbone, IMHO, you are parenting her. Not being a H, being her dad. Well, worse than her dad. Why say something like "20 times I asked you" you just put her on the defensive... I would be furious with you, too. You don't seem to talk to her in a loving way. I KNOW you are frustrated with her, but the way you are talking to her, I doubt she is listening.
Why not say, "oh my gosh, I haven't filed that yet" -taking responsibility. She might then say how come and you could say "I still don't have the credit card statements." Then, of course, it falls on her shoulders. You are so humble about the whole thing and she is going to figure out it is her screw up. The way you talked to her, she's going to be totally peeved at you from the start.
Quote: My friends and C have told me to let you be responsible for your actions and this is what I get. It always, always becomes my problem. How fair is that? This is exactly why I have to monitor everything, because I am always responsible to fix it. This is why I get irriatated when you don't focus on your business. How can I support you in other things when you don't take care of your responsibilities? I can't because I end up cleaning up the mess
Here you are ganging up on her, not just you and your expertise, but all of your friends and her C, too. So, you've pretty much flattened her again here.
Have you thought about an allowance for her? Some money she can blow like she obviously wants to, without your okay? Even this might be seen as controlling, but if the two of you can agree on an amount it might work. Your money IS her money, and her business IS your business. If she were a client of yours, would you treat her this way? Can you not find a solution that the two of you can live with?
You are communicating, you are living together and loving together... work this out, it is doable, you just need to get creative.
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Really? Where in CA are you going? I'm in San Diego!
Ellie Oh - and BTW - have you read the Five Love Languages yet? If not, you need to. Gifts is one of the five languages, and even if you and I, thrifty practical people that we are, don't see the value - if it is your spouse's language, it's very important to them. In my H's case, he had some very bad experiences in childhood (like his WAW mom forgetting to get him a birthday present, etc.) and so receiving from me was very important. Interestingly, when we were having difficulties and I decided to just go along and get him whatever he wanted and let him spend - he is now starting to rein in his spending! Definitely was an issue, having me be in control of finances.
In fact, one of the things that "did in" the OW - he gave her a Xmas present (even though they had theoretically broken it off) but she gave him nothing - meanwhile, I gave him everything on his wish list for Xmas. Then OW forgot his birthday (well, she barely knew him, how realistic was it of him to think she would remember it?) while I threw a lovely party with his closest friends and more nice gifts. And it was all cheaper than a divorce!
Also - can you do anything to help her call for copies of those credit card statements? Quit making it a struggle.
t- I am sorry that I was rather ugly with you about your W... you can take solice in the fact that my R is horrible, my H and I are not communicating, and he has been having an A since December. So, before you get too peeved, just say to yourself, that women doesn't know what she is talking about! Anyway, hang in there with your W.
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Thanks for the input, unfortunately I didn't see it before I left and have been far too busy to even lurk here since I got back. I know I provoke her defensiveness with how I talk to her even when I try not to. We are very incompatible in that regard. One thing that was said is that I should take responsibility for things to make them a non-issue. That would be really easy if I had more time. I simply can't. To answer another question regarding treating her like a client. I won't babysit my clients either. If they are not doing things I will give them gentle reminders but that is it. If they then come back to me and ask my why I didn't do something I will let them know that it was in their hands and they dropped it. I will lead the horse to water but I am not going to hold it's ears, sit on its head and make it drink.
She really doesn't like our confrontations (who would) but as I told her recently, "All you ever tell me is to deal with it." That has been the trend and last night was the same thing. I mentioned that she has not initiated in over 6 months. Her first reply was "you are counting?". She then broke into this rant about other affection and love and expectations. I said no it is only about initiation and passion. I want to feel "wanted". Who the hell doesn't. It is so important to feel loved but being wanted matters to me too. Am I way off on this?
She was bragging me up to her pageant friends and when I met them they were being blatantly flirtatious right in fornt of her. So she tells everyone what a catch I am and they seem to agree based on their actions but neither her comments or any jealousy make it to our private times. I try to be attractive to her but I think our "issues" are causing a lot of the problem.
She once again "shut me down" by telling me to "deal with it". That was crushing. The trend is that I open up and tell her how what she does or says makes me feel and I get no acknowledgement other than defensiveness. It is no wonder most H don't communicate if they get the same reaction I do. Sounds like "cheeseless tunnels" to me. I e-mailed her this a.m. to teall her exactly what I meant last night and that it really hurts me the way she reacts to my feelings. Maybe she will respond and maybe she won't but I will not verbally engage her in the future. Maybe if she reads something and has time to digest it she can contribute positively to the discussion.
Earlier this week I was very hurt by a comment she made so I said "You just keep pushing me away". Her defensive response was "keep walking". I was trying to be honest with her regarding how her actions make me feel and that is what I got. I told her that my comment wasn't a threat it is how I feel.
By the way, the pageant was the nightmare I predicted it would be. I could go into details but it would bore everyone. The boys and I had a great time in the water all week. Playing lifeguard results in a pretty good tan too I might add.
Had a new truck ordered for my W yesterday and now she thinks she wants something else. Why does life have to be so complicated. Maybe the C sessions will simplify matters.
I forgot to address the LL issue. I truly enjoy buying her gifts but she usually beats me to the punch. We also tried the allowance thing on a monthly basis but she had it spent in the first week. The other attempt is that I try to be very frugal to create a surplus but she usually spends everything I save. This financial BS has me frustrated beyond belief mainly because she doesn't "make it up" anywhere else. I never saw infidelity as an option and still don't but I understand why it happens much better now.
I guess I was a little out of patience lately. Okay, a lot out of patience. The good news is that she is making strides towards some of the things that need to be done. The bad news is that it once again took a major power struggle to get there. I heeded what was said about "how" I say and do things. I don't normally "lash out" like that but my reserves were completely tapped. A rock, I will never be, but I am striving to be more stable in rough waters. Getting crushed here at work but have been lurking periodically. Not much to say on other threads as the sitch's are improving or they are so complicated that I don't know what to say.
I did pursue the idea of the gift LL idea. We needed to replace a vehicle and we decided on the "loaded" model as she would be doing most of the driving in that vehicle. She was very appreciative that I catered more to what she would prefer over what was painfully practical. In the past she expected luxury, now she shows genuine gratitude for it. I think now that pageant season is over life will return to somewhat normal just in time for our foreign exchange student to show up at the end of the month.
Good day Tbone, I have to start off by apologizing. I read your 8/1 post, wanted to comment but didn't quite know how to word it, but then ran out of time before I could post and havn't been back since.
Quoting tbone: I know I provoke her defensiveness with how I talk to her even when I try not to. We are very incompatible in that regard.
"Incompatible" ... oh how I dislike that word! It has a tendancy to build up walls rather than find ways to bridge the gaps and these are gaps where bridges can be built. It not that you are incompatible, but you have yet to discover what works to express yourselves in ways the other can relate accurately to your expression.
I know how frustrating it is when your spouse doesn't try either, like your W's "deal with it." reponse. My W has a similar one, "I don't want to get into it." I've notice it has become a pre-conditioned response. There were certain ways that I would start with or a certain mode I would get into during a discussion that would just shut her down because of the way previous similar talk turned out. So she would just shut down with her response.
Now what to do about it. Well, tbone, I don't exactly have the solution to that since I have been more than about 50% successfully in finding what works , but the is answer is that it is trial and error, so keep trying different approach and tacts to express the same message in order to avoid her see it as the same old talk. If she doesn't recognize the message as "same ole, same ole", then she can't trigger a shut down with the preconditioned response.
The other thing to keep in mind is that, even by mixing it up with the different ways to deliver the message, you still may end up getting the same response at first, but a little while later, she may react differently in such a way that you'll know she still got the message and is responding to it. Your last update might be a result of this.
Its a never-ending struggle to find more of "what works" in order to keep the ties drawn closer against the forces that seem to pull you apart, but I guess that is what DBing for life is all about...
I am glad you chimed in. I feel bad but I haven't posted on your thread because I have no idea what to say. You have heard hang in there a million times and when your W is acting so irrational what do you do? You are one tough dude.
I was thinking about what you said and I guess that "incompatible" line isn't really how I wanted to phrase that. It is improving so its not impossible but I do need to continue to mix up how I present things to her. We had a terrible couple of weeks of interactions when I was fed up. When I get that way she shuts down too. Guess what, I changed my tune and she changed her's. We have had some great interactions recently that were at a higher level than ever before. We actually discussed things like mature, intelligent, loving adults. The control freak (me) even let her negotiate our new family vehicle. We discussed our options the night before quite casually but she was a bulldog when it was showtime. I was very proud of her and more importantly, so was she. It was actually quite funny. Once we got to the deal making part the boys constantly needed to go the bathroom or get a drink or whatever. I just did what they needed and left her there to work the dealer over on price. I would peek in and they still weren't low enough so she would tell them to try again. The old me could never have let go enough for her to do that. I think she really appreciated my trust in her. She just beamed for two straight days. Buying tip: If the vehicle has been on the lot over 90 days you can really get a steal. Ours had been there over 120 so I knew we had them on the ropes big time .
Unfortunately, we will have a new member on this site very soon I am sad to say. I just got off of the phone with a client in major R diffculty. Typical MLC/WAW sitch. He started out asking about financial issues but we spent 10 times more on the R side of it. It is hard hearing about divorces because I get so darn attached to my clients. He is going to get the books ASAP. I told him how common the whole thing really is and that if he is having a bad day or whatever to just give me a call. He sounded a lot better after we had talked. I guess it is my turn to pass on all of the knowledge that you great people have given me.
Hi..i have never stopped by..but thought I would peek in...I don't know what to say except the fact that you are able and willing to help another person just starting out on this long..unknowing journey told me a whole lot about you...you are caring...kind...understanding.. helpful. Those are great qualities...now about your w..don't know what to say...I know money stuff can be touchy..I like to spend..but have usually controled it..my h is a banker so he can always check the accounts to see where they are...but has never gotten on my case, he always said as long as the bills are paid on time...
It has a tendancy to build up walls rather than find ways to bridge the gaps and these are gaps where bridges can be built. It not that you are incompatible, but you have yet to discover what works to express yourselves in ways the other can relate accurately to your expression. 
, but the is answer is that it is trial and error, so keep trying different approach and tacts to express the same message in order to avoid her see it as the same old talk. If she doesn't recognize the message as "same ole, same ole", then she can't trigger a shut down with the preconditioned response.
even let her negotiate our new family vehicle. We discussed our options the night before quite casually but she was a bulldog when it was showtime. I was very proud of her and more importantly, so was she. 
It was actually quite funny. Once we got to the deal making part the boys constantly needed to go the bathroom or get a drink or whatever. I just did what they needed and left her there to work the dealer over on price. I would peek in and they still weren't low enough so she would tell them to try again. The old me could never have let go enough for her to do that. I think she really appreciated my trust in her. She just beamed for two straight days.