Sandi, That was a really excellent post! Most of what you say describes my sitch to a T. If only I had this sort of insight or my W had the communication skills 2 years ago I could have saved my M. Sadly the H is human and unskilled too and often the W's seemingly inappropriate behavior makes the H react or withdraw instead of respond appropriately and thus the sitch gets worse by the day. Once the W's angst leads to an OM or D is filed its extremely difficult going. My W used to say I'm a good guy, but ... it was a big BUT that was not clearly understood. You are right on the Marriage Builders vs. DB - unfortunately too many of us go to these programs or MC when its a bit too late and it often makes things worse. Its so complex Sandi but you are helping so much here - your age or the 40 years don't matter its the same story over and over again.