Mulesqb - Can the sun shine on a donkey's a$$?

[Bworl]

What it is, is a moment of clarity. And what you hope for is more and more of those as time goes by. If her therapy is effective, and if you can continue to hold the reins at home till she is able to contribute, I think you will see more and more of these.

I'm glad Duncan has brought a good thing to the family on several different fronts. Pets are much more than pets, as any of us who have them know.

I'll also chime in and tell you what an awesome job you did with your son at the baseball field the other day. As a coach myself, I can tell you how rare it is to have a parent, particularly a Dad, who is not trying to live vicariously through their child, and in the process making the whole experience terrible for the kid. Sports bring so many positives to our kids. But bad parents can make sports just another activity that kids dread to do. Thanks for being one of the great Dad's who realize that the kid is so much more important than the game.

Enjoy the good times. Use these memories to give you strength during the difficult times. I honestly believe she is trying.


Blessings,

Bill

[faithisbelieving]

I have nothing to add. That book, The New Earth has a section on being a parent and that it divides us into enjoying a parent for the 'role'...and 'being there'. Being there means that you drop all roles and our needs...you clear yourself and you are totally OPEN and listening to your kids.

mules...sounds like you were 'being there'. WTG. Those are the moments that make your boys men....caring and loving ones.

Stay the course. You validated great. Trust me on this one...the less you say and the more you just listen...the more control you will have over your OWN life and the more your W will SEE the change without being SOLD on it.

FIB

[The Wifey]

Mulesqb, what a great thing. I know you aren't off the rollercoaster, but the moments of clarity are so cool when they come around. Dogs are magic, by the way. I'm convinced. When my h was away from the house he would actually come home on the nights I had class to take care of the dog.

And I have to add the kudos to your parenting also. Your son will remember this.

[mulesqb]

Thanks Bill -Thanks for the kind words about the coaching. I really enjoy it but don't want to ever take it too seriously. It's got to be fun for everyone.

There is definitely more moments of clarity lately. The R talk is what gets us down. Saturday night was my fault with that - otherwise she is the one who usually starts them.

I had a dog growing up but - it;'s been more than 20 years - so i am enjoying him also and understand what you mean.

I really do cherish the good times. It scares the hell out of me that they could end with her. I have such strong feelings for her. Even stronger now than the day I married her.

The talk today at work is what I live for - it was like old times - we were laughing, she was using her "baby" voice when talking about Duncan. I was pumped. She is a great cook but hasn't really cooked in quite a while, so to hear that she is going to cook something tonight like that is awesome.

Could you do me a favor and explain what you meant yesterday about her "cycling"? I've heard the term before but don't know what it means in regards to her and the way you mentioned it.

[mulesqb]

Thanks FIB - I'm really trying on the listening. It's hard at times because she talks and looks to me for a response. Puppy and phoenix and Bill have helped me with what i should say at those times.

[mulesqb]

Hey KG - How are you today?? I hope you are doing better. I don't know if you saw earlier - but last night I read your entire thread. I've never been camping before - when the boys schedule clears I'll see if they are into trying it.

Thanks for the kind words also. Duncan has been magic so far!

Right now I live for the boys and those moments of clarity.

[Bworl]

Well, you have to understand this is just my take on cycling.

I truly believe that, often despite what they are SAYING, our spouses still have love for us inside of them. There is still a part of them that KNOWS that we are not their problem, the marriage is not their problem, etc.

Somewhere along the line they have begun to feel this emptiness inside. Perhaps something caused them to look at their life introspectively, I'm not sure. But in looking inside, they found things they didn't want or expect to find. Life had not turned out exactly how they pictured it. Might have nothing to do with possessions, then again it may. Often I think it has to do with OUR relationship not having turned out like they dreamed. Maybe we don't communicate well, maybe there is emotional distance for some reason, there could be lots of things.

In some spouses this triggers a series of disconnects inside. I think they are trying to eliminate things that could be the source of their unrest. At some point in the process, we and the marriage become the next suspect. At that point, there is an overwhelming need to be free from the relationship and the responsibilities there.

I see it as a war being waged inside the spouse. Their unhappiness is so real and so acute that all they know is that something has to change. That they have to find relief. And when the marriage or family life in general becomes the culprit, they have to be free from that. That's when WE become aware of the mess going on inside of them.

Some take off and run, they literally have to get away. In many ways this is easier for both spouses. The walkaway gets their space, and the left behind is not dealing with the drama everyday. The downside seems to be that losing that last connection with the family/marriage seems to open the door for a lot of behaviors that can put the final nail in the coffin of the relationship. I won't say more there.

For those that stay at home, I believe there is an intense struggle inside of them. They are constantly face to face with what they believe is the source of their sadness. And yet there is still that part of them inside that loves their family and doesn't really think that the family is the problem.

This leads to what I think of as cycling.

When things are good, when there are few pressures and everyone is generally happy, the troubled spouse can handle things better. They seem to function well, maybe even flash back to the person we recognize as spouse/mother.

When things are tense, or maybe they are just having a bad day inside, we see the new person. We see the person who just wants to be left alone, to be released from this life that is oppressing them.

This cycling is what I think of as the rollercoaster ride that we can either choose to take or not. Detaching is all about realizing what is taking place behind the scenes in our spouse, recognizing that it's not really all about us, and allowing those bad times to pass by in as peaceful a way as possible.

I got to a point with my ex where I simply refused to be around her or talk to her if I could sense that she was having a BAD day. Not that I didn't want to comfort her, but I learned that when she was in the bad place, nothing would help and nothing would turn out well.

We learn to embrace those moments of clarity, enjoy the presence of the spouse we recognize. And we learn to stay away from the dark person they sometimes become. We don't want to appear to abandon them, but we do make effort to find other things to do on those days.

Hope that helps.

And remember, this is just MY take.


Blessings,

Bill

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Thanks FIB - I'm really trying on the listening. It's hard at times because she talks and looks to me for a response. Puppy and phoenix and Bill have helped me with what i should say at those times.

Mules,

When in doubt, never hesitate to just say "Wow, I'm not sure. I'll have to think about that one. Let me get back to you on that." or something similar.

As men, I think sometimes we feel like we are expected to "have all the answers" -- it's our "fix-it" nature.

Puppy

[mulesqb]

Bill - WOW - What a post - thank you for taking so much time to do that. I think I now have a full understanding of what is going on. I wish she would read that!

A couple of things that stand out to me:

- I should be thankful that we are still living together.

- how they eliminate things - it's incredibly scary because that is exactly what she did.

-The need to be free - but when she has that (or thinks she does) it doesn't fix anything

-The War being waged inside explains the conflicted look on her face sometimes - also explains why she left the Chinese buffet last week after 15 minutes.

-Now I think I understand why she doesn't want to leave her home - there is still a part of her that loves her family and doesn't think it's the problem

- When things are good -she is her old self- when things are bad she takes it out on the kids.

Thanks for a remarkable post - You have given me much to think about!

[mulesqb]

Puppy - There has been a lot of that coming out of me - believe me that's a big 180 for me. My fix-it nature was one of the biggest problems I had that you guys 2 x 4'd me to death on.