Mulesqb - Can the sun shine on a donkey's a$$?

[mulesqb]

Hey Bill - It does suck - I was totally exasperated with her Saturday night and just had to get it off my chest.

I completely expect the frantic phone call at some point. I just spoke to her now and she said he is a really good dog and he's keeping her good company at home as today is her off day.

Good point about the in sickness and in health. I really wish I would have thought of that at the time. I'll keep it in my pocket and am sure I'll get another chance.

Not sure about her reaction to me with the neighbors yet either. What she has said is that she doesn't want me telling them "my side" of things. She doesn't want them thinking anything bad about her. I take it that she knows she is doing some very bad things. I don't trust the neighbors enough to have that kind of talk anyway. I really just listen - I think that's why he likes being around me - my W talks too much about us and I think he's kind of sick of listening to it.

She definitely has issues regarding the way she was brought up. When we were going to counseling together she had brought it up a number of times and our C was starting to get somewhere with it. She feels her parents kept her very sheltered so she was afraid to do anything. Now she seems that treatment was unfair.

I see what you are saying about loving leading. It's a great point.

I wish there was an end point here. It really is draining. But I know I have to do this and will continue on. Anything for our families, right?? You bet.

[faithisbelieving]

mules...following along. Leading is always a good thing mules, but, as Bill said, to be careful it doesn't become 'controlling'. Part of improving..in our growth and changes...is staying 'attractive' (not just physically). That includes listening and leading.

I have a dog. A rescued greyhound. Sadly, I feel that many times her anger is displaced onto him. Be aware that, again, as Bill mentioned, the dog may become a 'burden' to her. Adding a dog now certainly seems to have been a good choice. Just keep your eyes open.

Finally, as to your reaction to your W. I agree with all. Many of us withhold our feelings fearing that anything we do 'for us' will push them away.

You have a right to express yourself.
She DOES need to know how you feel.

It's the way that you do it that counts. I DO agree that phrases like 'I feel pain when you.....'...are correct ones to use. Next time try more validation. I would NOT react in front of her as much as it seems you did last time. I know it's hard. I've had to run out of the room or head to the BR at times (eg, when my son starts to cry or when my D5 says "let's do things as a family). You must stay strong. Although the phrase is, well, so DB'ish, the next time she says she doesn't love you you may just want to say 'I'm sorry you feel that way'.

Listening now goes so much futher. It's a powerful tool. Look why:
W: I don't love you anymore.
Mules: I"m tired of hearing that...I"m tired of...etc

W: I don't love you anymore
Mules: I"m sorry you feel that way (strong steady appearance). I only want you to be happy. If you are sure about your feelings you are free to leave to find your happiness. I'm here if you need to talk. I'm going to have a catch with X.

You were right, also, in saying that she needs to take care of her own issues. Too many times we try to take those on. She needs to tackle this and the more you allow her to do this...she'll either crash or realize she needs help.

No one said this would be easy or pain free.
FIB

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I think it's important to look at the betrayed spouse's primary style BEFORE their wayward spouse's affair. If it was honestly "controlling," then I think a softer hand is needed now. However, if it has always been placating/pleasing/rescuing behavior, then I think a more LEADING style is needed now.

And note the highlighted word above. "Controlling" is very often just "affairspeak" and can be roughly translated as "I don't like it when you don't give me my space in which to conduct my affair, and I don't like it when you object to my having one."

Whether Mules' wife ever had an EA or a PA with the neighbor, I think the rules still apply -- he should use the more leading style if his old style was possibly too "Mr. Nice Guy"; he should back off more if his old style was LEGITIMATELY too "controlling."

Puppy

[frank_D]

puppy: Yep, I think you have expressed it well.

[mulesqb]

Hey FIB - Missed you yesterday - glad you are around today.

I really don't think I was controlling in this sitch. I asked her if she wanted to go look and then I asked her what she wanted to do and what she was thinking. She had said she was nervous because she knew her parents wouldn't approve so I asked her to forget about her parents for now and what does she really want to do. I was going with either decision she made.

I see your point about how I worded everything. Let me explain a little more and tell me if you still feel the same way - on Friday night she kept telling me how she didn't love me - at that point I just kept saying I'm sorry you feel that way. Never said anything further at that point.

On Saturday, I went downstairs to watch TV because on Friday night she told me she didn't want to watch with me anymore. When I did what I thought she wanted she comes flying down the stairs and tells me that I am mean and cold. That's when I told her how tired of this sitch I am. I did say that I was tired of hearing how much she doesn't love me - you've said over 100 times now - I'm not stupid - so you don't need to say it any more.

At the end of Saturday's talk I did say that she should leave if she is so unhappy. I also told her that I was not happy in the current sitch either. I told her that she could talk to me anytime she wants and I do care about her and want her to find happiness. I also said that I do need to think about myself now also because so much time is transpiring. I said I need to think about what I want also. I didn't say that she hurt me or showed pain. I was very matter-of-fact. I just felt like it was my time to talk for a change. But as my therapist said last night - by this weekend she'll probably forget the conversation ever happened.

She is bonding with the boys with the dog and doesn't even realize it. She is spending time laughing and having fun with them around the dog and with the dog. It's wonderful to watch. I am trying to stay in the background with it right now. Last night she gave him a bath. She told me twice last night that she is so glad we got him. She said he is good company at home when she is alone and that he is a great dog.

I never tell her that I am hurting. But I do think that sometimes it's written on my face and she sees it.

[mulesqb]

Hey puppy - Question - my style was not controlling at all but she says it was. When I have asked her or the therapist has asked her to come up with example of my controlling nature sh4e has been unable to. At one point in the beginning of all of this I said to her that I was very surprised that she saw me as controlling. I then asked if she could tell me when I have been in the past or if I do it currently so I can see what she is talking about - and make sure that I don't do it anymore. Since then she has told her father that - free time and space has never been a problem - that I have always been they type to encourage her to do whatever she wants.

She definitely had an EA. I have no evidence of a PA at this point. I have always been Mr. Nice Guy with her.

Question - My therapist told me last night that she thinks my W is in trouble. She said that she thinks she needs to see a psychiatric doctor. This is based on seeing my W in about 6 or 7 visits and based on what I have told her since my W stopped coming. She said for my own sanity she thinks I am at the point where I need to say something to her in one of her meltdowns. She said she has exhibited little signs of many different things - depression, multiple personalities, chemical imbalance, hormonal imbalance, etc..Do you think I should say that to her. Is that leading or trying to fix her?? She said i look exasperated at the sitch and need to really find out what will happen. She said that I take the short term fixes in lieu of the long term (Sound familiar Dr. Puppy!). I think I have done that because I am afraid to find out if I am going to lose her. But my therapist thinks I have some leverage as my W always seems to turn to me when she needs help. She thinks that she will definitely have a harsh reaction to the suggestion but will eventually come back. What do you think?? I know it's a risk - but I may be willing to take it at this point. We just seem to be going in circles.

Would love to hear what you guys think.

[The Wifey]

mulesqb

I think Duncin is a fine name for a pooch. Have you bonded with him? I think you should try, since the w is liking him so much. Let her see how great you are with the kids, the dog, the house, etc. Give her one more thing to mull over.

The w is certainly conflicted, much like my h is. He is confused. I just don't know how much more of his confusion I can stand.

[faithisbelieving]

That stupid word 'detaching' is what comes into play then....to get off her rollercoaster. She's going to throw things at you that come out of nowhere now. Be prepared for these 'outbursts' and don't lose your cool nor lay too much on her. She IS confused and hurting now. WE must stay steady.

It's OK to tell her how you feel as said above. You are not alone. I have said the same things to my W, but, don't forget they can see you too. Women are like bloodhounds...they can sniff out your anger and emotions. When I first got here I used DB Chuck for awhile and he said that even if you are 'not angry' in tone, you can appear angry. You need to find that place of release. She needs to see you strong, leading...without anger. Find something to do that releases that. Do you play music? Any projects to do with the kids? Any beaches to go for a walk?

The more I tried to 'fix' my M...to make her SEE things my way...to APPEAR X way to her....it did nothing. I enabled her behavior. The more I 'threw in the towel'...the more I saw positive responses, mostly too late.

You have no control over her....you only control your attitudes and actions. Look less mad by BEING less angry. Act by looking after yourself, letting go of her and fixing her and focusing on your kids.

FIB

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Mules,

In my opinion, just based on reading ALL of your posts on here the last few months, your wife needs some professional help -- preferably, with a psychiatrist. Way beyond my ability to "prescribe" from here.

I would say that, considering how you answered my question (and it is exactly how I expected the answer to be), that you should firmly LEAD her way into seeing someone, including a family intervention if need be.

That's just my opinion; you certainly know her best, and I'd welcome Bill's take on this as well.

Puppy

[mulesqb]

mulesqb

I think Duncin is a fine name for a pooch. Have you bonded with him? I think you should try, since the w is liking him so much. Let her see how great you are with the kids, the dog, the house, etc. Give her one more thing to mull over.

The w is certainly conflicted, much like my h is. He is confused. I just don't know how much more of his confusion I can stand.

Hey Kelly - Yes I love the dog - absolutely perfect for our family right now. S10 had a tramautic experience with a dog at camp 4 years ago so he has been terrified of them. He is doing great with Duncan and he came up with the name. Knowing how scared he is of dogs I have been very emotional watching him with ours. It's awesome.

I had a dog growing up that I was very close to so my W has been asking me a lot of questions. So it has given us an area to bond a little also. She thinks I am very good with him - she has made it a point to say that Duncan loves his Daddy a few times.

I am where you are at in terms of my W's confusion. I want this to work more than anything, but at the same point I have been a doormat for 6 months. I am in it for the long haul because I really do love her more than anything but as you already know sometimes you feel completely drained. The problem is that we just keep going around in circles. Is that what we call riding this out??

It's like a month long version of the movie Groundhog Day. She's nice to me - gets very emotional - says things I want to hear, things go well for a couple of weeks, she pops in a R talk and says I'm misinterpreting things and goes all negative - forgets and denies any of the positive - and then we start all over. Meanwhile the kids are on the outside looking in. I am not doing that anymore - the kids are first - if she doesn't like it, that's her problem. She got pissed the other night when i came home and didn't ask her how her day went. Quite frankly, I didn't give a sh!% how her day went knowing that I was at it with the kids from 7am to 10:30pm getting them where they need to be and then at a family function with 4/5 of our family. I was looking forward to getting them showered up and in bed and getting some time to myself before I went to bed - had she offered to help with that I probably would have asked how her day was.

Also - if she didn't love me - why would she care if I didn't ask her how her day was?? I was giving her space - that she requested. Her confusion confuses me. She is consistently inconsistent. I guess that's MLC. Hope you are having a good day - I know the mental stress you are feeling.