Mulesqb - Can the sun shine on a donkey's a$$?

[faithisbelieving]

When she returned, instead of eating in the kitchen with the boys she went out on the back deck and ate by herself. That bothered the boys.

This is what happens with a confused mind. I strongly urge you to pay particular attention to your boys right now. This stuff is damaging. My then 6 year old once said to me "mommy is not the same anymore". Powerful words from a little boy.

As a loving and dedicated father, you must do 'damage control' now...even for HER sake should be ever come out of this. Kids need TWO parents and her departure hurts them. Stay strong...nurture them and support her TO THEM in your own kind and gentle words. It's OK to say to them that you love her and she is going thru tough times. Most importanly, almost ALL IC's and books will stress that it's important for you to let THEM know that "it's nothing that they've done." Just love them ...MORE.

Your children will look to you now mules. Even in her 'implosion', they will look at you to see how to react to a woman...how to deal with her behavior...etc.

Stay the same strong H you've always been. Don't waver to your kids.

As for the babysteps, I'm not a believer in them anymore. I think they are 'blurps' of normalcy in a sea of confusion. Reconciliation is bigger than that.

FIB

[mulesqb]

Hey FIB - Tonight she blew off both the boys baseball games and then met us for dinner. We went to the Chinese buffet. She was very strange - looks like she is there physically but not mentally. Spoke to me a little - not much to the boys. About 20 minutes in and one plate done she asked if it was ok to leave. S10 was in the bathroom. I said to her once again - sure - you don't need to ask my permission. She said ok - I'll see you home. When I got home she was in bed. Said she is having a hard time being around the kids - and work was very tough.

FIB - I am in agreement that there are no such things as babysteps. You either are in the marriage or you are not. Right now my W is faking it because she is so confused. It seems like her extremely moral inner self is trying to hold on - but there is so much conflict there. I keep trying to detach. It's not easy as you all know. A lot of people seem to confuse anger with detachment - the key word you guys keep using is lovingly. I'm able to do that about 3/4 of the time - when I can't I fake it.

[mulesqb]

My then 6 year old once said to me "mommy is not the same anymore". Powerful words from a little boy.

I got the same thing from S10 tonite when he cam eback from washing his hands in the bathroom to find that his mother had gone home. He said said the same thing and repeated 3x - I can't believe she left. Just another in a long list of very painful things going on right now.

As a loving and dedicated father, you must do 'damage control' now...even for HER sake should be ever come out of this. Kids need TWO parents and her departure hurts them. Stay strong...nurture them and support her TO THEM in your own kind and gentle words. It's OK to say to them that you love her and she is going thru tough times.

Man - I'm trying as hard as I can. I just have to do it all the time now. She is very withdrawn right now. She is thinkiong hard about something - wants to be alone A LOT.

Your children will look to you now mules. Even in her 'implosion', they will look at you to see how to react to a woman...how to deal with her behavior...etc.

I hate to say it - but I'm ready for her to hit rock bottom. Her parents and I think she is 2 1/2 years into this. They think ouyr bond was so strong it just took her a long time to get to me.

[Bworl]

It's tough with the boys.

My two boys were 14 and 19 when their Mom left the house and eventually divorced me. My oldest had just moved out in July to live with his buddy at college, so he managed to avoid a good bit of the anxiety his Dad was going through. My poor youngest son lived with it everyday.

There were times that I scared him to death with the mess I was in. I tried to keep it away from him but I'm sad to say I didn't do a great job, especially those first 3-4 months post bomb.

As I began to calm myself emotionally, I still had a need to talk about what I was feeling and wondering. Unfortunately, I've never been a big one to confide in people other than my (then) wife, so it was hard to find someone. I didn't even let my parents know what was going on until over a month after she left. That meant that most of my talking was done to the boys. And that remains the one thing that I would definitely change if I could go back and do it over again.

It was toughest for my youngest I think, mostly because he saw the damage it was doing to me, and yet he was feeling his pain as well. The bomb occured in September - it was probably the middle of December before I was in a decent state. He told me later, in his own way, what a relief it was to him when I finally began acting normal again. I had no idea how much stress it was putting him under.

I suppose it was a little bit easier for my boys because their mother left and never came back. They were able to just deal with the fact that their parents were divorcing because Mom felt like she had to move on, and they could begin getting used to the new life that had been forced upon us.

In May of the following year, their Mother decided that she was moving 500 miles away to live with the guy that she had been smitten with when she was 16. They reconnected during a visit to her father post bomb, turned out he was 49 and never married, and he managed to convince her that he never married because he could never find someone better than the 16 year old girl that had a crush on him 25 years ago. Of course she had promised both boys that she would not leave until our youngest finished high school, so her decision to leave was a bit of a blow to S14.

I think both boys are doing pretty good with things now. I did take my youngest to see my counselor a couple times, but he convinced my counselor that he was doing ok. He was good living with Dad and realized that his Mom had issues that had nothing to do with him. In many ways he detached much more quickly and effectively than I did.

Once I got my act together, I pledged to never allow myself to drag the boys through this mess again. No talk with them about their Mom and how I felt about her and the sitch. I promised to just be their Dad, support them, and encourage them to come to me with anything, anytime. Our relationships have only grown stronger and tighter as a result.

My oldest has helped out with schedules and transportation for my youngest when I'm working and coaching. Both boys took part in my recent wedding and have bonded nicely with Deb's children. I'd like to think they're doing as well as can be expected given what they've been through. I do feel comfortable that both of them know that I'd go through hell for them if necessary, and that's most important to me.

I guess I share all this to draw attention to what FIB talked about. While there's little you can do for your wife right now, those boys are a different story. Trust me, they don't want to know all the details about the current problems, nor do they want to hear how much it is tearing you up inside. They just want to know that they have at least one parent who will guarantee that life as they knew it will change as little as possible. They want to know that they still have a protector and a fan who will never leave their side. That's your most important role right now, even on the days when this sitch really is tearing you up inside.

You can't talk down their Mom to them, because they will always want and need a relationship with her, even when they are angry with her. You also can't be caught rationalizing any bad behavior on her part, especially towards them, because they are too smart to buy that bull and then they begin to doubt you.

You have to simply let them know that

1) you love their mom and your wife and will do whatever you can to help her find her way back to your life together,

2) yes, she is doing things that are hurtful and seems insensitive to your needs, but she is hurting inside too and deserves our compassion,

3) and no matter what, they will always have both a Mom and Dad, and that their Dad will always make sure life continues as much as normal as possible.


It's a tough task sometimes. But again, it's your MOST important role right now.


Blessings,

bill

[The Wifey]

mulesqb

I hope you have a good day today. I thought about the baby steps. I think they take a while to even get started. The biggest thing is that even though she is conflicted, she is still around. Show her your positive changes. Let her see you GAL. Show her the stability she can't bring herself to have right now in her confused state.

Whether your M works eventually or doesn't, she is messed up. That is her baggage. You didn't ask for any of this no matter what your part. Remember that!

[faithisbelieving]

mules...I can't touch what Bill wrote. Read his paragraph above several times. This morning, I had a conversation with my W. For the first time now, she is crying and apologizing for her behavior...after almost 2 years and is seeing a psychologist. It is probably too late, but, at least she is getting some help for herself. Sadly, I almost see shades of 'normalcy' and wonder if she is coming out of the tunnel.

You hope that your W will get there sooner than mine did and perhaps save this. This is a long road. It does not go away overnight. They do not wake up one morning and tell you "oh honey, I've made a mistake....I'm back...I love you".

Far from it.

Having a 5 and a 7 year old...and reading what Bill wrote, our W's wreak havoc on all our lives and,yes, ONE OF US, must maintain stability. THIS....THIS...is where YOU come in mules. It's a tremendous responsibility and one you can't shirk. I can tell you as can Bill...there will be times that you feel like Atlas and the weight of the world will be crushing you....or, like Sisyphus, no matter how much DB'ing you do, you'll get to a positive place only to have them roll back downhill to some darker roller coaster stop.

But you must continue no matter WHAT the result of this all is. Your kids need you now and as Bill said, they only want to come home and know that there Dad is there...he is OK...he loves them...and he LOVES THEIR MOM. In the worst part of my D, I once told my W that no matter WHAT WE DO TO EACH OTHER THRU THIS, NO ONE WILL MAKE THEM STOP LOVING EITHER OF US.

Your boys are looking at you right now. You are their rock. They will learn how to deal with women based on how YOU interact with your W. Be strong. Detach. Be upbeat. Bill and I CAN say one thing to you...no matter WHAT happens here...you will be OK. You will. Knowing that, be positive...stay strong...let your boys see that you love your W thru her pain and...just be there and love them.

Your going to be OK.

FIB

[mulesqb]

Hey Bill - Your 3 points are my mantra right now. I have gone through what you describe with S14. I have probably talked to him too much - he's way mature for his age so sometimes it's too easy. I've tried to backoff the last few weeks but when i do he then comes and asks me how I'm doing all the time.

My biggest problem with the boys is when they spend time with her before I get home from work. Apparently she just tries to avoid them so she can be free. So sad. I am pretty good about being very strong around them - have had 3-4 slip ups in 5+ months.

[Arthur]

FB - Great post, I can learn from that too.

[mulesqb]

Thanks Kelli - hope you are doing well also. If I was into babysteps - there have been many lately as far as she and I are concerned. I have been trying to hold her in the morning in bed like old times - I always ask though - is it ok if I hold you? She has said yes and usually stays for about 15 minutes before pulling away. This morning she stayed for a very long time. Then she woke and spoke to me for about 15 minutes. Then she asked if I wanted a cup of coffee and she got in the car and went to DD before I took the kids to camp.

I was supposed to take my S10s team to the batting cages tonite. She asked if we could have pizza together instead - because it's been baseball every night. So I'll get my asst coach to do it. We also talked this morning about things she can do with the kids - she said there is nothing - she doesn't like anything they are into and they don't like anything she is into. I just threw out there that maybe she should give them a chance - I know they are dying to do anything with her. Anyway - mentioned playing tennis with them and she said that could be good but how about we do that as a family?? I said ok. - Now that the weekend is here the neighbors will be back involved and she'll want me there every step of the way. i can guarantee that they will be on my back deck tonite. My W thinks the neighbor and I are very funny when we are together. She told me again this morning that she is having a very hard time being around the kids.

As everyone knows though the roller coaster is just illogical. When she started the whole sep talk she said she couldn't be without her kids - now she has absolutely nothing to do with them and they know it and act out. Then she behaves like the kids are terrible for the way they treat HER. She sees the changes - but she is so self absorbed right now. I don't need her to acknowledge them - I'm ok in that regard.

Thanks for the encouragement - I'm here for the long haul - but do have the occasional self pity day. I'm back on track again!

[faithisbelieving]

I was supposed to take my S10s team to the batting cages tonite. She asked if we could have pizza together instead - because it's been baseball every night. So I'll get my asst coach to do it.

Is this a good choice? I am not saying it isn't, but, think about this. FIB