Last July (7/07), My wife and I were reunited after a six-month separation wherein I found within myself the desire and drive to fix my broken marriage.
In August (8/07), and beginning with John Gray's Mars/Venus book, I began a research campaign to figure out 'how' to fix my marriage, putting into practice what I liked, and discarding what didn't seem to work.
In November (11/07), I found Michele's SSM book, my wife read it and had her own epiphany about men and physical intimacy. Breakthrough #1.
In December (12/07) I joined this site and shared a little of my story...all the while my wife and I are making slow improvements in our relationship.
In February (2/08) we found an individual / couples / sex therapist to help us out and have been seeing him ever since.
In May (5/08) my wife finally had the confidence in our marriage recovery, and trust in me, to reveal what she really needed in order to be happy both in and out of the bedroom -- it was time for me to 'man up' and take charge. Breakthrough #2.
It's now the following July (7/08), and while a lot of progress has been made, we have a long ways to go yet....
Note that while I would no longer consider this to be a sex-starved marriage, and we are both happier with each other than we have been in many years, the journey is far from over. It will probably be another year, or two, before we consider everything resolved, and I'm sure life will throw a few more curve balls at us to handle in the mean time -- it always has.
The fact remains, however: it can be done, the long-standing SSM can be fixed, with a lot of effort made by two people who still love each other and who truly want to make it work.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
I went back and checked out TIH website a bit more. There are some really varied lifestlyes out there, aren't there? I don't want to hijack your thread so I will go over to my blog and say a little more about it (although I will address it to you).
My guess is that once you and Mrs. Bagheera get all this figured out, you will one day say "what took us so long?!"
I went back and checked out TIH website a bit more. There are some really varied lifestyles out there, aren't there?
Indeed there are, and I'm sure there are many TIH practitioners who would consider what my wife and I have started to not truly be Taken in Hand because domestic discipline (DD) is *not* included. I have a personal aversion to the concept, such that erotic spanking is hard enough for me to do. Besides, my wife is one who is attracted to brains (intelligence, wisdom, & cleverness), and I believe that physically dominating her outside of the bedroom would be seen as a "cheap" shortcut, and one that she would resent. This lioness will have to be conquered via other means....most of the time .
The TIH concept does, however, encompass an entire range of male-led relationships (including non-DD), and has been one of the very few sites which discusses such marriages in detail and with pride (with the webmaster and most of the contributors being strong, intelligent women). It was refreshing to find as a resource. That said, my wife and I don't need any particular label for what we now have, and are not worried about it --> we will find what works best for us as a couple, and go with it.
Originally Posted By: DanceQueen
My guess is that once you and Mrs. Bagheera get all this figured out, you will one day say "what took us so long?!"
I've already been kicking myself in the butt for not seeing all of the signs that were there, pointing to this type of relationship long ago. Hindsight is 20/20, of course. At least I finally got it, and put the trousers on.
Take care,
Bagheera
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Can you describe some of the "signs that were there"? I am just curious. I know in my sexless marriage I really didn't understand myself so if I did put forth "signs" they weren't very concrete. Just curious on your wife's "signs" that you see now but didn't then.
Can you describe some of the "signs that were there"? I am just curious. I know in my sexless marriage I really didn't understand myself so if I did put forth "signs" they weren't very concrete. Just curious on your wife's "signs" that you see now but didn't then.
Alright, this is getting a bit more personal than I usually like, but I'll share (in general I don't like sharing her secrets, only my own). Note that in the lists below, she wasn't trying to 'broadcast' her intent, particularly early on when she didn't realize it herself. It honestly would have been hard for me to put these pieces together, but there were clues, nonetheless:
Outside of the Bedroom
'Contrary' or 'challenging' behavior -- and the more yielding I was, the more challenging she would become. I don't think she was consciously testing or pushing, but it was there.
When I did stand my ground and push back, the 'make-up sex' after the dust settled was often great. In fact, during the most sex-starved years of our marriage, the only decent sex we were having was make-up sex -- any other time was pretty scripted and bland (for both of us).
There have been times when she had to handle our family finances and bill paying by herself, and while she's actually more capable (and cost cutting) than I am at it, she *hates* the responsibility of it: she's much happier as my consultant.
She has yearned for years for me to take charge and lead the family's spiritual aspects (church, family prayers and such). For a long time, I was completely inactive in these areas, but have picked up that aspect of my life again this year. She's been overjoyed by it.
Occasionally, church discussions / lessons would come around to the husband as head-of-household idea, and not once did she balk or object to it. Any objections to the concept came from me. This was true even when we were first married.
Her primary reading material has consisted of hundreds of Romance Novels over the years, all of which depict strong-willed women being conquered by even stronger men, and often forcefully so. She's been flaunting her fantasy relationship in my face for years, but I was too willfully ignorant to add 2 plus 2.
I noted some time ago that 'ravishing' or 'rape' scenes in movies were the ones that pumped her up the most -- far more than the the soft love scenes.
The men in movies that spark the most interest in her are often the 'bad' types who dominate their women and aren't particular caring or feeling towards them. It used to really puzzle me that some ass on screen could turn her on, while a Nice Guy in a 'chick-flic' would turn her off.
Inside of the Bedroom
She has NEVER wanted to take the lead and dominate in any way. It's always been "what I want," even on the occasions when she initiated sex.
She really dislikes giving direction during sex, despite all the stuff that we've read advising her to be more assertive and give it. She'll do it occasionally, and grudgingly.
Soft, gentle, slow sex usually causes her to lose arousal. There have been times when it's worked, but as a general rule, I can't be too slow.
Going back to when we were unmarried (and weren't supposed to be sexually active), if I took charge and really showed my passion for her, she has *always* responded in kind.
There is a direct correlation between my level of passion and dominance and her response: if I'm passionate and forceful, she's extremely aroused and responsive; if I'm timid, gentle, and slow, she has a hard time.
She *hates* having her arousal and her orgasm as the center of my attention during lovemaking. The more detached and selfish I can be in taking my own pleasure, the more she likes it.
There's obviously more that I have learned since she finally gave me a clue and the light bulb went off in my head. But this is what was there beforehand.
Take care,
Bagheera
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Baggy, you are both lucky. She's gonna be sooooo much happier and happier over the years now that you will become that bad boy on the cover of her romance novels and take her rough, versus mocking those books and thinking she is nuts to think that men are supposed to be that way. Hee hee!
I sat here for a while trying to answer your question and tick off those clues, which I hadn't done before. It turned into a pretty impressive list....man was I blind.
As I've brought up in NTE's thread, I think that the men some women (like my wife) are the most attracted to sexually are men who would be really bad for them in a long-term relationship. That is, the guys who have the level of masculine 'energy' and sexual ruthlessness necessary to really drive her wild are most often arrogant, selfish jerks outside of the bedroom. In looking for a husband, the trick for such women is to find a man who has enough 'bad boy' traits to turn them on sexually, but enough 'nice guy' traits to be a good husband, father, and provider. The results are mixed.
The wives of men who have too much of the 'bad boy' in them wind up on the OTHER forums here (not the SSM forum), while the husbands who have too much of the 'nice guy' in them wind up here, reading my long ad nauseam posts.
Having just finished Dr. Glover's book, I know that I have *some,* but not even a majority, of the 'Nice Guy' traits, but it was enough to spin my marriage into sexual starvation. Luckily, the masculine traits that attracted my wife to me in the first place are still there: I just have to (finally) unleash them into my relationship with her, rather than continuing to suppress them. Easier said than done, actually, but I'm getting there.
"My name is Bagheera, and I'm a recovering Nice Guy."
"Hi, Bagheera! Welcome to the support group!"
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
I sat here for a while trying to answer your question and tick off those clues, which I hadn't done before. It turned into a pretty impressive list....man was I blind.
As I've brought up in NTE's thread, I think that the men some women (like my wife) are the most attracted to sexually are men who would be really bad for them in a long-term relationship. That is, the guys who have the level of masculine 'energy' and sexual ruthlessness necessary to really drive her wild are most often arrogant, selfish jerks outside of the bedroom. In looking for a husband, the trick for such women is to find a man who has enough 'bad boy' traits to turn them on sexually, but enough 'nice guy' traits to be a good husband, father, and provider. The results are mixed.
The wives of men who have too much of the 'bad boy' in them wind up on the OTHER forums here (not the SSM forum), while the husbands who have too much of the 'nice guy' in them wind up here, reading my long ad nauseam posts.
Having just finished Dr. Glover's book, I know that I have *some,* but not even a majority, of the 'Nice Guy' traits, but it was enough to spin my marriage into sexual starvation. Luckily, the masculine traits that attracted my wife to me in the first place are still there: I just have to (finally) unleash them into my relationship with her, rather than continuing to suppress them. Easier said than done, actually, but I'm getting there.
"My name is Bagheera, and I'm a recovering Nice Guy."
"Hi, Bagheera! Welcome to the support group!"
-- B.
P.S. I never mocked those guys, DQ, but I was always very puzzled. They didn't fit the paradigm that I had been taught. I figured it was just fantasy...not what she really wanted for herself.....yeah, I'm an idiot.
Last edited by Bagheera; 07/10/0812:55 AM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
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