Darn... I should have grabbed that guide at Half-Price books when I saw it. I'll be sure to get it next time I'm there. I have actually already read some of it a while back at their site in the "tips" section. It'll be more fun to read together though.
I wasn't sure about my own feelings in my own relationship, because I hadn't had any models for what I was feeling, nor did I find that website or anything else very helpful before now.
For myself and my man, I can't say we truly have a TIH relationship, although it may appear to be pretty close.
I can say that all of my friends feel that he has "too much sway" over what I do, and that to them I appear to be c*ck-whipped. Sigh. What can you do? How can I explain to them that this is truly what I want and how I want it, regardless of how it may appear to them that he has me under his thumb?
They can understand the rough sex (most women do understand that and the desire for it) but they don't understand how I went from my marriage, where I had to do everything (although I didn't want that role), to my current relationship where to them it appears he dictates my every move. They also can't understand what to them seems like unusual amounts of possessiveness on his part. They think I should feel controlled and rebel against it.
Well...that's because they are in the same trap I was in when I was married: raised by feminists, told to "never do what a man tells you to do", learned early and soon that they held the sex power, and as a result, they have emasculated husbands and they are not happy, but they DO wear the pants, for which they pretend they are doing it because "they have to". Ugh.
For a while, in the beginning of my new relationship, I thought maybe it was just a sex thing and that maybe I was just exploring some BDSM fantasy stuff (though I kinda knew that wasn't really it). But what other model did I have? It seems such a simple thing, to need and want a male-led relationship...but even that label is weird and doesn't really fit.
Do you remember an email that went around a couple of years ago, which was a cut and copy from a 1950's good housekeeping magazine, an article about basically "how to be a good wifey to your wonderful husband" and it was full of stuff like "keep the children quiet when he comes home so he can shake off his day" and "make yourself prettier for him right before he gets home" and "have a fire lit and a drink ready for him". Things like that. It was heavily misongynistic but at the same time...it was about SAHM's and working dads. When I read it, all I could think was "heck yeah, if a man was totally financially supporting me and I had the day to myself (other than child rearing) I would totally do that stuff!" Myself, I always worked longer and harder and earned more than my husband, so why in the world would I greet him like that at home? But if a man were supporting me? I would have felt it was heaven.
When this article went around, I was in my new relationship and was thinking "yeah I could go for that, especially if he is supporting me". A girlfriend sent me the article saying "look at this total BS, what a load of crap". I wrote back and said "well....but this is about men who fully support their woman. Wouldn't you feel differently if you were being fully supported?" She just ended up getting edgy and defensive and told me I am co-dependant in my new relationship and that "the hold that man has on you is just weird, DanceQueen". Ugh.
So you see, even women don't really get it.
(BTW, that same girlfriend is now happily married to a man who finacially supports her, she gets to be a SAHM for the first time in her life, and guess what? She greets him with a drink, has a fire lit, keeps the kids quiet, and tries to be a nice pleasant wifey for him to come home to. But whoa...when I tried to tell her what it is like when you are happy with a good man who supports you, she just called me co-dependant. You can't really explain, even to another woman, how when you are truly supported and happy it makes you want to be subservient.)
Baggy, I hope you keep posting updates. I will be back with a bit more about my sitch too, for you or whoever is interested.
Just checking back in after a longish break. All I can say at this stage is that I find this thread definitely very edgy and thought-provoking stuff. Well done for stirring things up!
S&A
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.
Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
I've been financially supporting my wife for 17 years, she's been a SAHM for 16, and none of that ever happened. In fact it got worse when she quit work. What the hell happened? She/we seemed more happy while she was working. By the way I was all for her quiting work and so was she. In my mind I thought this would allow her to be more feminine and have more time to do things that she enjoys, not to mention a better mom.
The woman's lib movement just really screwed up our generation I guess.
Yes Cinco, I realized after I wrote the above that many of you men may have SAHM wives and still not be getting any special attention for it....not sure what to say.
I had it "ok" when my son was born in that I could at least work just part time (versus full time) and my husband's schedule was different than mine so we didn't have the baby in child care full time, so that was important to me.
But I never ever got to just be home with my baby as I was the main breadwinner, and for this I was always feeling envious of those stay-home moms.
HOWEVER Cinco...even if I was a SAHM mom, I can't say for sure if I would have been good to him because of it or not. I was really pretty crappy to him in general, so I don't really know. I *felt* it was because he was letting me down was the reason I didn't step up more as a wife...but maybe I was just young, dumb and stubborn and I wouldn't have been good to him at all?
(actually I know that I would have definitely been BETTER to him)...
Anyway, I acknowledge your plight, and yes, F.U. to women's lib!
I've been financially supporting my wife for 17 years, she's been a SAHM for 16, and none of that ever happened. In fact it got worse when she quit work. What the hell happened?
Financially supporting your wife is only one small part of the overall equation as to how you get treated. There are two sides to that coin, I think.
On the one side, there are plenty of wives who may be SAHM's and who's husbands pay the bills, but who get little support beyond that -- with the kids, around the house, or wherever. They don't feel cared for or cherished in any way, and are lacking in a solid emotional connection with their husbands. They end up feeling walked on and taken for granted, and get little in return for their efforts. So no warm greeting there when hubby gets home.
On the other side, are the so-called 'Nice Guys,' who go out of their way to do everything they can for their families, both on the job and off, but who don't take charge, even to stand up for themselves. They end up feeling walked on and taken for granted, and get little in return for their efforts. Again, no warm greeting.
The only way this truly works is when both partners demonstrate (daily) their appreciation for the efforts of the other, and both partners help take care of the kids and the house after normal working hours. Each partner contributes, and each partner recognizes the contribution of the other.
You know DQ, I really don't want a subservient little 50's housewife. I'm satisfied with a warm, affectionate greeting when I get home from the office, with rowdy kids playing in the background. My newly acquired position of leader is frequently challenged (although my wife is becoming more deferential with time), and the interesting bit is that the more challenging she is by day, the more submissive she is likely to be that night. Conquer this spirited lioness and she melts into rather delicious butter later on.
Who wants a Stepford Wife? Not I. We're having too much fun.
-- B.
Last edited by Bagheera; 07/09/0804:01 AM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Baggy, I never said I was a subservient house wife. Don't be silly!
Trust me on that one. I'm just talking about behaving in a whole new way compared to my previous life.
But...(ahem)...one of the reasons I said that my relationship isn't actuall a TIH one is precisely because I am definitely not "in hand".
My man needs me to be the strong one sometimes and to take him to task on certain things. He needs me to be our moral leader, and if he gets out of line, no whimpy housewife is going to make him do the right thing. I, however, with my own very large alpha female-ness, can indeed make him do the right thing, and he acknowledges that he needed my help in that.
I don't take any bull crud from no one, least of all him. He knows it and respects me. I've had to stand my ground on nearly everything, because he is in fact very alpha and will just push people around if they let him.
On the one side, there are plenty of wives who may be SAHM's and who's husbands pay the bills, but who get little support beyond that -- with the kids, around the house, or wherever. They don't feel cared for or cherished in any way, and are lacking in a solid emotional connection with their husbands. They end up feeling walked on and taken for granted, and get little in return for their efforts. So no warm greeting there when hubby gets home.
As we slowly slid into our SSM this IS how we ended up. It was a gradual process to get there, the less physical connection I felt the less I did... you know the drill. It was a negative feedback system that just deteriorated our marriage over time.
Thank goodness we have broken that loop. The positive feedback method works much better.
