Helping OW??

[fooled again]

BFM,

Thank you for your post. You have given me much to think about and I see a great many similarities in our sitchs. Your input is extremely helpful.

At the time I think (correct me if I am wrong) you were so convinced that he would choose home that you convinced yourself that you would be OK if he didn't. Now he's leaning away from home and you want to back pedal big time. You issued an ultimatum when you weren't ready for the worst possible outcome to happen.

When I gave H my letter I wasn't convinced he would choose home, and I was ready for the worst possible outcome, I still believe that. H told me immediately that his choice was to come home, and perhaps this was the truth at the time. But I know now that the pressure I kept putting on him to meet my conditions right away was more than he could handle, and that likely led him back to OW. I wasn't patient enough w/ him.

One thing you've got going for you today is that he told you that he wasn't sure when you asked him if you guys were still over. In other words, he hasn't really chosen.

Yes, I agree, this is a good thing. When he said we were "done" last week, I didn't expect him to want to spend time with me again so quickly.

What kind of time line did you give him in your ultimatum? Did you give one? I made sure FW knew that I wouldn't continue on as we were forever. That I just couldn't do it. That if he went through with a divorce that sleeping together would stop and that I would start dating others. I also made sure he knew that we would no longer be friends like we are anymore. That we couldn't keep that close emotional tie to one another. One thing I never did though was give a definite time line. I kept that option open. I didn't want to hem myself in.

Basically my ultimatum letter said that I was letting him go so that he could make his choice, that he needed to be sure about what he wanted and to take the time he needed to do so. I said that if he choses not to be with me, then we could not be friends or have sex or have a relationship except as coparents. I too said that I would wait for his decision, but that I would not wait forever. I did not give a definite time line - it was suggested to me by my non-DB coach, but it didn't feel like the right thing to do.

When my H told me immediately that he had made his choice I should have forced him to take more time. I see that now. Also I should not have continually asked him where he was at in meeting my conditions. I had written my ultimatum letter to reflect my boundaries, and to tell him that I was ready to let him go and move on with my life if his choice was to not come home.

It is clear that H is still not ready to make that choice, and that he needs time and space to do so. He still wants to be around me and know what I am doing and who with.

Some quick advice. When you leave him, don't call him back and ask R questions. Sounds like it wasn't too damaging last night, but no more pressure.

You are right - no more calling after he leaves.

Also, quit telling him your conditions over and over. You sound like his mother. He doesn't need a mom, he needs a wife. He knows, he's told you he knows. Let it sink in. Let him think about it. Get some patience and be still. No one deals well under pressure, esp not an MLCer.

I do not tell him my conditions anymore, I don't bring them up, I don't allude to them and I have no intention of talking about them. When and if H decides to come back to me, he knows what is necessary for us to heal. So no argument there.

I will tell you what I've said on here before. Many will disagree with me. You are in direct competition with the OW. While we should not focus on them as they are not the root of the problem, there is still a competition there. Even Jim Conway admits this as does his wife in their books. As much as I hate to call it this, you are playing a game and you need to play to win. I hate reducing it to a "game" because there is so much more to it than that. Now, you need to get a game plan. You need to lay some stuff out for yourself. Figure out your H. Figure out if he's the type that can cake eat forever, or if the stress of bouncing between 2 women will eventually cause him to break one way or the other.

I think this is the most vital piece of advice I have read so far. My H sounds an awful lot like MFW, the guilt will eventually get to him and I think he does lay out clues so he will get caught. He will break eventually and go one way or the other, I honestly believe that.

FA

[fooled again]

BND,

I have not spoken to OW in days and do not expect to. Should she call again, I will deal with it at that time the way I think it needs to be dealt with. You need not continually warn me of the dangers - I have heard you and the others and I thank you for your advice.

Unfortunately you seem to have a problem with hearing advice from only those who tickle your fancy and tell you what you want to hear.

Though this may be true, we all must bear in mind that each of us are dealing with a unique situation. What works for some does not work for others, and vice versa. Perhaps BFM said it best when she said that sometimes I just have to do what I feel is right. If I listened to my friends, I would have given up on my M two years ago. Heck I might even have remarried by now. But that advice didn't sit well with me.

I don't want to offend anyone or discourage them from posting. I appreciate all points of view.

FA

[Cinderellaman]

BFM,

I have to say - SPLENDID stuff you wrote !

I have finally reached the stage myself where I can start to be friends with H, because I am understanding detachment. It took a very long time, and it needs to go step by step, but I think that now finally I can join the competition ! x

Take care x

PS FA sorry for the hijack ! x

[ba065]

FA:

I've been reading your threads and must say I think you are getting some excellent input from others here! I have been contemplating contacting my H's MOW or her H and after reading the advice here have decided to leave things alone!

I understand your frustration with your H popping in and out and with no solid answers for you! You sound like you are detaching well even though your H is making it difficult for you!

Hang in there!

BA

BA

[fooled again]

Cinders,

NEVER apologize for hijacking - we can learn so much from each other's hijacks. I agree, what BFM wrote was amazing! I'm printing it out so that I can read it again and again because there is so much to think about.

Detachment is the hardest thing about what we are doing. It takes the most strength, the most energy, the most patience. There are times when I can do it no problem, and others when I fall flat on my face. There are times when I feel like a brand new me, strong, independent, self assured, and others when I'm a child afraid of the dark.

But I also believe that if we were COMPLETELY detached, we would no longer stand for our M, so to me, those moments when I feel "attached" keep me real, let me know that I do still love my H, and that is the real reason I am here. So I try to forgive myself when I do backslide once in awhile.

FA

[fooled again]

Thanks BA,

You have to do what is right for you, I honestly believe that. My first contact w/ OW was when I first discovered the A nearly 2 yrs ago, as an email to tell her to go away. We exchanged some emails in Aug/07 when I discovered the A was still going on. Then in Oct/07 I called her & we exchanged a couple of long phone calls and decided to meet.

My last call to her was last week after my H told me he was done w/ our M. I needed to know if it was because of me and the pressure I was putting on him to come home, or if OW had anything to do w/ his apparent decision. She called me back and called me again the next day. She is very distressed that H is still seeing me & lying to her, & it is mainly she who talks & asks questions. But we have always spoken quite easily with each other & have learned more truth from each other than from H. This is likely not the case for many sitchs.

For me knowing where I stand is important - it is the unknown that I fear most. I would rather know that OW is around for certain than simply suspect, as it allows me to make informed decisions about what I want to do. For example, if I know H is sleeping w/ OW, I will protect myself & make decisions about ML w/ him.

I know many, many DBers think I'm wrong, and I can deal with that. You must decide what suits your sitch, and it sounds like you have made a good decision for you. I'm glad that my posts have helped you to do that.

You hang in there too. (((hugs)))

FA

[butterflymom]

FA:

I've been reading your threads and must say I think you are getting some excellent input from others here! I have been contemplating contacting my H's MOW or her H and after reading the advice here have decided to leave things alone!

BA

BA

Does the MOW's H know about the affair?? Just curious, if not I would be inclined to tell him.

Affairs die when they are exposed to the light of day. The secrecy of them is what helps them to thrive. It keeps them thrilling and still somewhat of a fantasy.

I told FW's MOW's H the day that I found out. I drove to his house and told him in person. I blew FW's affair wide open and would most likely do it the same way if faced with it again.

Just MHO.

BFM

[brandnewday]

Just so you know, it doesn't matter if I think you are right or wrong, all I can tell you that from living on these boards for a very long time I can honestly tell you what works and what doesn't.

I made every single mistake in the book, and I am not too proud to admit it. The biggest one was allowing the OW to have too much headspace in my life.

The majority of WAS's do end up choosing their Spouses, but the biggest problems lie in the fact that the LBS's has no ability to forgive or to make the changes to themselves to allow their Spouses to come back home.

The focus needs to be on you, on God and not him, not her.

[fooled again]

BND,

The majority of WAS's do end up choosing their Spouses, but the biggest problems lie in the fact that the LBS's has no ability to forgive or to make the changes to themselves to allow their Spouses to come back home.

I can understand why you would say that. I have spent alot of time thinking about that, whether I could forgive my H for what he has done. I believe in my heart that I have forgiven him, and I continue to forgive him every day, every time I learn something new, every time I remember how he has hurt me. I believe that forgiveness is a choice, it is a very difficult choice, and requires more strength than any other choice we can make in our lives.

Yes, allowing the OW to occupy alot of headspace is terribly destructive. Don't get me wrong, I am not obsessed w/ OW, and perhaps this is BECAUSE I know so much about her. I know that I am stronger than she is, I know that I understand my H much more than she ever will, and I know that she is merely a "drug" for my H. I understand alot about my H's MLC and am basically waiting for her to fade away.

FA

[brandnewday]

If you think you need to forgive him now, then wait until he comes home...
That is where the real work begins.
It is so much easier to DB from a distance then when they are close by.
Keep working on yourself...your issues.