Helping OW??

[Cinderellaman]

If I may.....I think what BND told you is very wise. Leave it for now, focus on your own life and let that unfold the way God intended. Things have a way of becoming what they should.

Wish you strength.
God bless you.

[mkultra]

I agree. Too much of the focus is on what he wants, what she expects, what they will end up doing. Place the focus back on yourself. Do what you want to do as if this were an opportunity to be free. If your Northern Star is to be with your H in a loving marriage then visualize that as a long path not just winning one or two competitions. I am sure you are not being competitive. You are fighting for your marriage as we all should be doing but alas sometimes it takes just one person to save a marriage. Do not obsess over them or over what H wants. You are doing a great job GALing but why GAL with H? Just wondering? Is it recommended because I forget.

Think about the sex from both POVs.

[fooled again]

mkultra,

Think about the sex from both POVs.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Can you elaborate?

FA

[Bworl]

Just catching up on this new thread, but you've received quite a bit of advice AGAINST conversations with OW.


Just wanted to chime in and say that I think it's right for you. I think your situation is only best understood by you. And it seems to me, at least as you've described it, that you are gaining more than you are giving up.


I applaud your strength in fighting for your marriage. And I applaud the fact that you know what your boundaries are. Oddly enough, Michelle Weiner Davis, the founder of this site, also insists that all contact with OW MUST be ended in order for the relationship to be healed.

The unfaithful partner must be willing to end the affair and do
whatever it takes to win back the trust of his or her spouse.

Blessings,

Bill

[Bworl]

You are aware that when your H finds out what you have been doing--talking to OW and possibly snooping--that will not bode well for you.

You are trying to control the situation on many fronts. You are treating him like a child as well. He will run faster than you can count on one hand. Unless your H likes to be mothered and smothered, this will not work.

Think about this--do you really want your H back? If so, do not do these things.

I do not know your beliefs but I am of the belief that this is something you cannot fix.

One needs to allow their Maker to do the work while we be still.

I simply do not see things this way at all.

Marital vows have been breached. The most sacred promises and commitment has been violated. There has been an ongoing relationship with another person that has subverted the longstanding marriage and family that already existed.

And you mean to tell me that it's not ok to say that this all must end?

I refuse to believe that this is an across the board, iron clad truth.

Some things work in one situation and not in another. As FA has pointed out, what they were doing before was not working. I think it is a sign of self-respect that she refuses to involve herself as a wife with a man who refuses to end contact with his adulterous partner.

As for the phone calls, I see no empowering of the OW. Apparently the three of them have known each other in the past. I think it would knock her husband on his keister to know that these two women were now in close contact with each other. Look at his cycle: get his fix from OW, run back to wife, feel pressure so go get another fix, run back to wife. He has played these two off against each other. Perhaps this will lead to ending this charade.

And honestly, if it pisses him off that they are talking, who really cares? This man has been committing adultery and fornication, and we are to care that he is mad at getting caught?

Big surprise there.


Just MY humble opinion.


bill

[mkultra]

These are two different things. Michele means that the wayward spouse show absolute contrition to win back trust from the abandoned spouse. Fooled Again still needs to get to the place where the affair has ended. Cutting off contact has to occur if the wayward spouse wants to earn back the abandoned spouse. Maybe he wants to come back but he wants it to be easy. Maybe he wants to have more time to decide. Maybe he wants status quo? Who knows?

My comment about sex was to look at it from his point of view. People view sex differently. I have read several scenarios where sex was just sex. Physical. For some couples it was reconnecting and bonding. Nostalgic. For others it was closure. Sympathy. For still more it was one spouse cheating on the OP!! Revenge.

But maybe it is that you are more attractive than ever!!! And husbands and wives love to do what they gotta do!!! Act as if!! PMA!!

[fooled again]

Bworl,

Thank you for your input - you are well respected here and I have read many of your posts to know that you do not simply "chime in" unless you have something of value to offer. Sometimes I feel like a newbie, and right now I'm at a bit of a loss as to how I should act toward H, especially whether or not to tell him about my convos w/ OW.

Yes I am gaining a lot from talking to OW, if nothing else it is some consolation knowing that things are not rosy on "Fantasy Island". Of course OW could be feeding me a line about her not being able to live like this anymore, but somehow I don't think so.

FA

[fooled again]

As for the phone calls, I see no empowering of the OW. Apparently the three of them have known each other in the past. I think it would knock her husband on his keister to know that these two women were now in close contact with each other. Look at his cycle: get his fix from OW, run back to wife, feel pressure so go get another fix, run back to wife. He has played these two off against each other. Perhaps this will lead to ending this charade.

You know, that's really what I wanted to accomplish - bring the truth out into the open. H is telling OW that he wants to be with her and he is not seeing me, and telling me he is not seeing her and is confused about what he wants. I believe that he is confused - this is probably the most truthful thing he has said to me. But of course he is lying to her about seeing me, so I would assume that he is also lying to me about not seeing OW.

But I don't think I can go dark on H - I believe that would only push him away from me. I have to find a place of balance in this sitch, where I'm not giving away too much, but still showing H that there is a way to come home. That is my problem and my goal.

FA

[butterflymom]

You’ve gotten yourself into a tough spot with the ultimatum. At the time I think (correct me if I am wrong) you were so convinced that he would choose home that you convinced yourself that you would be OK if he didn’t. Now he’s leaning away from home and you want to back pedal big time. You issued an ultimatum when you weren’t ready for the worst possible outcome to happen. Can’t say that I blame you. That’s why I never issued one though. I knew that if he decided to stay with her that I wouldn’t be able to follow through. I also knew my H well enough to know that ultimatums do not sit well with him and it would only serve to hurt my chances.

I got lucky. In my case OW issued one. She told him he needed to have filed for divorce by the time her divorce was final (a 3 month time frame) or she was moving on. FW moved back home before the time was up.

Will the OW hang herself? I think they all usually do eventually. Theirs (as are all affairs) is a relationship built upon lies and deceit. The seed of doubt has been placed within her and she will always wonder about him when he’s a little late, when he’s doing something with you and the kids, when he doesn’t answer his cell phone right away, etc etc. That is where our patience comes into play. Just how long will it take? That’s the million dollar question.

Should you continue to sleep with him? That is a question that only YOU can answer. I would say that most people here will tell you absolutely not. No way, no how, stick to your guns. I lean that way myself considering your situation with the ultimatum, but I can’t say without a doubt that you should cut it off. That is such an individual decision and a lot of it is based upon knowing your H better than anyone here does.

I knew FW. I knew his conscience, I knew his personality, I knew his needs. I knew that sex holds an incredible emotional connection for my H and that despite what both of us were saying to each other at the time that it wasn’t “just sex”. I knew his conscience would eat him alive too. I knew that he would not be able to carry on with both of us indefinitely. I knew the stress of having an “affair” with his wife, that the stress of “cheating” on his OW would take a toll and that sooner rather than later he would break one way or the other. I was banking that I held better cards than she did with the history, the kids, the sincere changes I’d made to myself, the marriage, etc and that he would eventually break towards me.

Did I know this for certain??? No, I struggled every single day with continuing to sleep with him, wondering if it was the right thing to do. Everyone else would have told me I was a nut if they knew what I was doing.

Continue to be friends with him?? I did that too, but I also knew I was meeting some of FW’s most important emotional needs (read a little marriage builders about this) and thought it was more important than going NC. I had to become a master at detachment because being friends, even with a nice MLCer, is tough to do and still detach. As Cinders said, none of this is for the faint-hearted.

I will tell you what I’ve said on here before. Many will disagree with me. You are in direct competition with the OW. While we should not focus on them as they are not the root of the problem, there is still a competition there. Even Jim Conway admits this as does his wife in their books. As much as I hate to call it this, you are playing a game and you need to play to win. I hate reducing it to a “game” because there is so much more to it than that. Now, you need to get a game plan. You need to lay some stuff out for yourself. Figure out your H. Figure out if he’s the type that can cake eat forever, or if the stress of bouncing between 2 women will eventually cause him to break one way or the other.

If he’s a cake eater type – cut him off. No if’s ands or buts. Some men can carry on between two women and never act like anything is amiss in their life. That that is just the way things are and no big deal.

If he’s the guilty conscience type – reevaluate your game plan. What has been working? What hasn’t worked? What have you not tried yet that you think might work? What are his needs that he has expressed to you or that you have figured out on your own? How can you meet those?

One thing you’ve got going for you today is that he told you that he wasn’t sure when you asked him if you guys were still over. In other words, he hasn’t really chosen. What kind of time line did you give him in your ultimatum? Did you give one? I made sure FW knew that I wouldn’t continue on as we were forever. That I just couldn’t do it. That if he went through with a divorce that sleeping together would stop and that I would start dating others. I also made sure he knew that we would no longer be friends like we are anymore. That we couldn’t keep that close emotional tie to one another. One thing I never did though was give a definite time line. I kept that option open. I didn’t want to hem myself in.

Some quick advice. When you leave him, don’t call him back and ask R questions. Sounds like it wasn’t too damaging last night, but no more pressure. Also, quit telling him your conditions over and over. You sound like his mother. He doesn’t need a mom, he needs a wife. He knows, he’s told you he knows. Let it sink in. Let him think about it. Get some patience and be still. No one deals well under pressure, esp not an MLCer.

Assume that he’s seeing OW, that he’s sleeping with OW, that he’s talking with OW, that he’s with OW. Stop talking with her even if she calls again. Curiousity killed the cat, FA. I can understand the draw there. Little known fact is that I am still very good friends with FW’s first OW. Long story. I’ll try to summarize here. She lasted about a month or so, FW confessed after the fist week. He said he was leaving me. She talked him out of leaving and told him that she would not be “that woman”. That he could leave, but that it wouldn’t be for her, they were over. Less than a month later FW took up with OW#2 (who just so happened to be OW#1’s best friend). Right before D-day with OW#2, OW#1 cornered me in a restaurant and apologized sincerely and through some weird twist she and I have become really really good friends. So, I can understand the lure there, There is a lot of information that could be gained(maybe), but just resign yourself to the fact that there are some things you will NEVER get the answer to (There are things that FW can’t tell me. Answers he can’t give because he doesn’t know them himself) and that talking to her will not give you an advantage.

Finally, if you do decide to keep being his friend and seeing him, detach detach detach. Never ever let him see you get down from being with him. You are to be upbeat and happy and act “as if”. If you can’t do that, then don’t see him anymore.

BFM

[brandnewday]

Fooled Again,

I read through many of your posts....

Unfortunately you seem to have a problem with hearing advice from only those who tickle your fancy and tell you what you want to hear.

I am telling you that if you continue to have these stupid conversations with the OW, you will end up falling flat on your face.

I am warning you for the sake of your own sanity and possibly even your Marriage, leave her the hell alone and do not take her calls or discuss her with your Husband, and especially do NOT discuss your husband with her.

I am not trying to rain on your parade, but you think this is a good idea because you are not thinking rationally. You want to have your marriage saved no matter what and seem to have forgotten all about having some self respect and a little dignity.

Don't lose yourself in this drama..........