Nice to see you... sorry to hear what you've been going through.
Are you in counseling? Taking meds? I ask because some of the repetitive behaviors you're doing are ripping you apart. I didn't want to go to counseling, but my 2x4 friend kept reminding me of how much it helps.. (e.g., You'll get through this, yes, but seeing a professional helps you get through it faster and in better shape).
When I was a bumbling mess unable to remember the days of the week, my therapist pointed out that the symptoms of depression were elevating so adjusting the meds would help to get my mind in a place where I could make good decisions.
People are very good about phrasing things so you can think it through on your own. Unfortunately right now I have a bit of piss and vinager marinating so you're getting my unadulterated view because aspects of our situations are very similar.
A husband looks out for your best interests, is your cheerleader in the corner, respects and loves you. You deserve respect. What would you tell your son to do if he was in a situation where his best friend was lying to him and being disrespectful?
Okay.. what do you do with a guy who's gone at night, sneaking in to 'protect' your youngest, especially when there was a separation in the past.
Well.. DB techniques are not meant to be 'roll over, suffer and petition for martyrdom' applications. It's all about being healthy. Initially, the goal is to remove the negative from the spouses perspective to minimize the reasons for why they want to leave. You work on those, improve yourself, the spouse notices a change, curiosity gets the better of them.. and shazaam, you have an opening for communication and growth because of all the forward momentum.
Well.. what happens when you're doing this and you're dying inside? That nothing you're doing makes a damn bit of difference in the spouse's actions and it begins killing you inside, creating a very draining and negative place for you to be in?
That's when you DB yourself. You take away the negative for yourself. If you can't be healthy, then nothing else works. You have to take care of yourself first... above the marriage, above the kids. If you're sucked dry to a shuddering husk you're of no use to anyone.
It happened to me on our 25th anniversary. Spouse was living in an undisclosed location, admitted to 'dating' the woman he had moved in with during our marriage and was threatening me to find out the details of what I knew of his whereabouts.
With the help of friends and a DB coach, I realized that since he was not treating like a husband should, I was not obligated to continue my wifely duties. I 'got it' that he was leaving me, that he was divorcing me. Marriages, relationships are based on balance. If one person is hogging the seesaw, then whoops.. it doesn't work.
It was very scary.. but the more I looked at where I was, the more I realized the truth. If things turned around magically and he wanted to be back in our marriage.. it would not be the same twisted relationship we'd shared. That one was over. I would want and expect a relationship built on mutual trust and caring. That would be new. I 'got it'.
So.. I set up boundaries.. something I had never really understood. What did I need to feel better?
What do YOU need to feel better? You already know the answer.
Saw your post. Yeah yeah yeah, we all suck at relationships, sometimes they're great, others times not so good.. unless you both work on and are committed to them.
He can blame you all he wants but the only one responsible for his happiness is the face he sees in the mirror. Blaming you is a way of avoiding looking at himself.
Was he bully... were you passive.. does it matter in the here and now? My answer.. nope. What happened in the past is the past. Only by focusing on the present and moving forward can you have positive change.
I'm learning all the time about the ways spouse would manipulate me to get what he wanted. As I learn each one, I feel better about myself because I don't fall for it.
Love yourself, be good to you.. let go of filtering your life through his eyes.. and stand proud for the wonder that is you!
I'm learning all the time about the ways spouse would manipulate me to get what he wanted. As I learn each one, I feel better about myself because I don't fall for it.
I'm interested gypsy....what ways would he manipulate you, and more importantly for me, how do you recognise it in time so that you don't fall for it and don't turn into a bumbling mess?
** Purple
As soon as you trust yourself you will know how to live. Goethe
It starts with a change in perception. If my focus gets lost and/or I get baited/trapped/put on the defensive, I pay attention to what changed.
Below is my sorta list:
talking me in circles, placing all the blame on me telling me how difficult it is for him, how much pain I'm causing him using the children... using anger bullying intimidation threatening ("It will get ugly for you and the kids..) when I feel myself getting emotionally out of control.. not the huge kind, just starting to feed just a little into "He should know this" yelling
Anything that shows a lack of respect on his part is a major red flag.
It's a process. Sometimes I remember, sometimes I forget. But, the BS meter never lies.
During a phone call he started talking about something. I told him I wasn't going there because I knew he would talk circles around me, and it wouldn't go anywhere.
Something clicked a little later that he'd been doing that to me for years. That I'd be focused on one thing, we'd talk and the next thing I knew it was something completely different and I'd be incredibly confused. Realizing that it was intentional woke me up.
I described that interaction to my lawyer who told me he took advantage of the soft spot I felt for him, that he manipulated me and bullied me to get what he wanted. That he would make it so I was the one being blamed for everything. Hmmm. The next time he called about something that was upsetting him, I listened. His swirling conversation thing started, I stopped it. Then it went on to something else and I eventually told him what he wanted to hear.
I stopped talking to him on the phone, keeping it on email for a point since I ended up always feeling pressured and attacked. He then would write something, after we'd had some positive exchanges.. "We need to talk directly to make sure none of the details of the kids are left out." I couldn't imagine any more detail, but since it had been positive, I called. BANG.. he jumped on me about something. As I was battling that, I added "using the children" on the list of don't fall for.
By now I had..
talking me in circles, placing all the blame on me look at how much pain you're causing me using the children...
and as my brother would say.. a pretty good bullshit meter registering things.
As things that came up, I'd pay attention to my voice/BS meter inside while listening or emailing him. If something registered, I'd pay attention to it and add it to the list.
People's responses to my interactions helped. After one conversation where he was screaming at me (amazing!) imp wrote.. Look what good control you had.. as he was out of control yelling.
Aha... added "using anger as intimdation."
So my list which has been in my head is..
talking me in circles, placing all the blame on me look at how much pain you're causing me using the children... using anger as intimidation bullying intimidation threatening ("It will get ugly for you and the kids..) yelling
I've hung up on him a few times, but usually call right back.
Learning the fine art of "click", disconnecting the call when it gets abusive/out of control/hurtful/disrespectful is another skill I'm learning. Not promptly replying to emails, letting his calls go to voice message are other things I work on.
I firmly believed he was honest and straightforward. His consistent evolving actions changed that.
He does what he needs to do to get his way. I'm learning it's not my job to placate, calm, fear, agree or disagree with him.
Now I do what's right for me to be healthy, make good choices. His actions forced a tremendous change. It's my decision now, my choice on how I move forward.
Can I get an amen, sister?! Another post I will print out this am...thanks!
Got your "Hey"...tried to send one back (had to read up, 'cause I'm such a Luddite!!), but you were gone...poof, just like a wisp of smoke...
Not much sleep last night; my desktop is looking unusually comfy this morning!!
L2
P.S. Oh, and yes, i do see an IC. She seems pretty good; young, but willing to speak her mind when I ask for it instead of merely mirroring what i say... My usual appt is on Thurs., but was able to change this morning to later today...lots to process.
How'd you keep all those thngs in your head when all the crazy making was going on?
I dealt with h semi-successfully not long ago.
He would normally pick d7 up today but he called this morning and we discussed it between h, me and d7 and she said she wanted me to pick her up. Lately I have been going swimming on this night of the week and taking d7 with me (parking her with her dinner at one end of the pool while I swim laps). I told h in the morning that I was going swimming but when I picked d7 up tonight I thought we'd try going to a pool that's closer to home (as opposed to going to our normal pool which is in the centre where h works but it is further away and my membership has just expired). This different pool is set up differently so I told d7 she would be able to go for a swim after she ate her dinner. I checked my phone before I left work at about 5pm but I have been leaving it on silent a lot of the time over the last two or three weeks, partly because the buttons are not working well to swap between loud and silent and it's less disruptive if I have it on silent. The other reason is that I'm sick of the anxious feeling in my gut when I hear the phone ring (or vibrate) and putting it on silent makes me feel like I have more control over answering the phone as _I_ make the decision as to when I check my phone and not jumping to answer it when it rings.
Anyway, I digress. Got on the train, picked d7 up, came home, heated up her dinner, got changed and went to the pool. I didn't check my phone till we were leaving the pool at about 7.45pm. h had rung twice and left me a text @ 6.30pm asking me if I was still going swimming. I texted back "yep, but we went to [different place] instead." NOrmally I would explain more of my reasoning but I made a conscious decision to just state the facts in my text.
So we get home and get in the bath/shower. As I was getting out of the shower I heard the answering machine beep and realised it was probably h. He rang again a couple of minutes later when I was still drying off. Once I was dry I rang him back and got served with some of the following:
h: "Why are you ignoring me?" me: I'm not ignoring you, I was in the shower. h: so I call 5 times and you don't bother to call me back? me: look, my phone was on silent and I didn't check it till after we got out of the pool and I texted a reply to you. h: [accuses me of] "playing silly games" h: I was worried about you guys, I left a message to check to see if you got d7 okay ...and so on and so forth. He was pretty sh1tty and kept saying I was playing games. I tried explaining why I had my phone on silent (at work it's loud). He said 'well, turn it down then' in a childish voice. I was in deep doo-doo for not answering the phone for 2.5 hours. he ended up hanging up.
I put d7 to bed, got my dinner ready. Thought about whether I should ring him back or not. Which would resolve the issue? If I didn't ring him back it would send the message that I was either p1ssed off or that I felt guilty and therefore he was right about his comments about playing games. If I did ring, how would I keep the conversation without degenerating again?
So I rang. I said that "look, I can see why you would have gotten upset that I didn't check my phone. I'm guessing that you were worried that I wasn't able to pick her up or that I had forgotten"
he said yes. he was worried.
phone call ended peacefully.
*sigh*...I was going to be strong on this one. I was not going to say I was sorry for not calling or checking my phone. I don't have to check in with him any more. Why is he treating me like this? If he had have approached the situation with less anger and accusation I would have been more likely to understand what he was worried about. As it was, I had to go away and think about what made him mad. That shouldn't be my job. I dont' want to be in a relationship where I have to justify myself and feel like I am not believed.
Is this the sort of thing you get? Guilt trips and checking up on?
I see this clearly right now so I wanted to write it down. Hope you don't mind me putting it on your thread. I really did intend to just put a summary down but it just spilled out.
Last edited by Purple; 07/08/0802:21 PM.
** Purple
As soon as you trust yourself you will know how to live. Goethe
No problem; it was a useful post for me anyway. I see myself in your anxiety and uncertainty of crafting your response. I feel strong and competent in other areas of my life; why is my R with H so fraught with these other, feelings...
He does what he needs to do to get his way. I'm learning it's not my job to placate, calm, fear, agree or disagree with him.
Now I do what's right for me to be healthy, make good choices. His actions forced a tremendous change. It's my decision now, my choice on how I move forward.
Gypsy, wow, that is so good! I am going to print this out and try to remind myself of that. Thanks so much for posting this!!! Karen
I don't really keep it in my head, except for the children one. He still tries to blame me for the kids confusion on the divorce process taking so long (5 months so far??), but I'm more aware now. Each interaction teaches me something more. It's a learning curve.
