i'm clueless....

[ann25]

hi Dom,

Yes, I read the whole thing. I probably read it about a dozen times before i posted it.
I came here because my M was pretty much over for me and i couldn't stand the thought of it. I came here and i learned a lot. I changed alot. I posted and read and took a lot of advice. I know there was some that i missed, but i've done alot. In the last 3 years my M has gone from an ok one, to one that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy... sadly, the only ones who really see how bad it is are my 3 little girls. The ones who are looking to me as an example of the kind of wife they should be. The ones who are looking to my H for the way a man should treat his wife.

I know some will read that and may say that i'm probably being a little over dramatic and they may be right, but i know how the process works. I have 4 sisters. My first is on her second bad M. the next one just filed for divorce. I'm in a miserable R. I haven't seen my younger sister really smile since she got M. and my youngest, the one that just got M about 8 months ago, she's calling me on a regular basis telling me how he treats her and how he doesn't help her with anything and all he does is sit around and play video games or watch tv and he doesn't ever want to do anything with her. We all married men that treat us now, just like my dad treated my mom. Did I go out looking for that? nope, but i found it.

So now i'm sitting here thinking about the way my mom gave me advice before i got married, before i had my daughters about waiting and making sure he treated me ok and that he did his part to make this a M. I just laughed and told her how great he was, how much in love i was and how he was nothing like my dad... i was wrong, on all counts. I'm thinking about the day when my D meets a boy and I see things in him like my mom saw things in my H and she laughs it off... like i said, i wouldn't wish this M on my worst enemy, much less my little girls.

that's why i came here and have been trying so hard. Because i know M don't have to be like this. I want to show them how a good loving R can be. I came here thinking that i could fix this and that it could all be ok and maybe even better than before.

Now, i'm sitting here, feeling worse about my M than i ever have before. Even when he was accusing me of cheating every day, i just wanted to prove i wasn't. Even when he said he wanted a divorce and started staying in his office i wanted to show him i loved him. Even when i was talking online with OM i still wanted my H back and just didn't know how to do it. this is the worst i've felt. It makes me sick. I can't stand being around him. I don't want him to touch me or even talk to me.

So, my 2 things he can do, 1) help me more with the girls. yes, that's help me. Raising 3 girls is a lot of work, while i can do it all, it would be easier if i didn't have to 2)give me some space. Let me leave the house by myself. Let me sit and talk on the phone to my mom without sitting in the same room. just some space.

2 things he needs to stop doing. 1) insulting me 2) criticizing everything i do, cooking, cleaning, being a mom.

How many times do i need to repeat that list. Really. I can't even count the times that i've told him those things. I'm sure there is something wrong with the things i'm asking for, but that's what i need. I can't imainge ever being in love with him again. I've tried, and nothing has changed in me, but maybe it's cause things have only gotten worse.

i have seen a MC by myself. She gives me advice and trys to help me talk to him in a way that might get through, but it's hard without him going. He doesn't even think i should be going. Heaven forbid one of us want to work on our M. Although, why should he? He has it pretty good. He's got a W and 3 pretty little girls. He doesn't have to clean the house or cook anything or take care of anyone except himself. If he does even the smallest thing, he gets praised for it. I don't argue with him and refuse to yell and fight. All he has to do is wake up at about 10 am or so, work for a little bit and then watch tv or play a game. must be rough...

I could stop doing things, and i have before, but then i get hit with the accusations and i must not be doing things becuase i'm thinking about someone else. then i'll have to do everything anyways, so at least this way i'm eliminating one of my problems...

Yeah, so this is way longer than i wanted and i probably mostly just whined... so sorry. just needed to vent some i guess.

[Tomato]

greetings Ann

So nice to see you. It appears I have a bit of reading to do to see what you have been up to.

[Tomato]

be strong girl. I know that is getting old but it always applies. You are blessed with having Christ at your side.

[Tomato]

Alright, I just gave a read through of your latest post.

I will start off by saying that while I think that I can & will offer a fresh perspective to things for you, Dom continues to offer invaluable assistance to you. I am sure you have appreciated every bit of it.

The next thing on my mind came after I glanced at my last post. Not only are you blessed with having Christ by your side continuously but you are also blessed with those three amazing little girls. Give them a hug and a kiss. I wish I could hug my kid on a more regular basis. And actually I need to be more grateful of the fact that even at age 15 I still manage to get the hugs that I do from her when I am around her. It is all from God.

"Now, I am sitting here, feeling worse about my M than I ever have before."

I had something pop into my head as I was reading your post. I will ask regardless of the risk of stirring things up a bit. Following each of these three deliveries have you experienced any post-partum depression? I realize that this may not at all be the case, but I was just feeling like that was something I wanted to find out from you, if you didn't mind.

I also wanted to be sure to mention that I think that your having posted your items that your H would need to start doing & those that H would need to stop doing is simply fantastic. You said "I am sure that there is something wrong with the things that I am asking for .." There is not a darn thing wrong with any of those things. The only thing wrong with them is that they haven't happened yet. I have faith that they will.

"How many times do I need to repeat that list." Do not diminish the importance of the things on your list. To decide that you have already said then enough times to him would be greatly diminishing their importance. They are vitally important to the revitalization of your M. Treat them as such and do not think of ceasing the refrain no matter how old it seems to be getting. He is a guy, he is thick headed and dense. A few more sledge hammer whacks and you might just be able to reach the cerebral cortex of that silly DAM (thanks FG) of your's. You will not give up. You have too much of the Lord's will coarsing through your veins.

A few more sledge hammer whacks is what it is going to take, Ann. Swinging that thing is a lot of hard work. So catch your breath and then prepare to swing some more. And remember to swing it in a loving kind of way. I didn't say anything about being gentle ..just loving

Pray hard and swing harder. May the Holy spirit descend upon you and your family. I'll pray.

[Dom R]

Yeah, so this is way longer than i wanted and i probably mostly just whined... so sorry. just needed to vent some i guess.

no way!
i think that was one of the most useful posts, you have ever written.

I think the most fascinating part of it, is that your mother told you, before you even got married....
exactly what I have been telling you.

So now i'm sitting here thinking about the way my mom gave me advice before i got married, before i had my daughters about waiting and making sure he treated me ok and that he did his part to make this a M. I just laughed and told her how great he was,

You'll notice that she didnt say "pick the right guy, or you're doomed". Yes, she talked about being cautious in your choice. But she also talked about an active, ongoing action from YOU, to make sure that HE "did his part".

You haven't been doing that.
You now are in a position of needing to play catch-up, for 10 years of not doing that.

If you want a better marriage, with your H... you CAN have it.
It will take a LOT of work from you. Determination, and commitment, and sheer stubbornness.
It will get ugly. very ugly.
But divorce is much, much uglier.
There will be times you may think, "divorce cant be worse than trying this hard..."
yes. yes it is. trust me on this.
Because if you stick to it, you will go through hell for a year, and then have a great marriage afterwards.
If you DONT stick to it, you will go through legal hell for half a year or more...and then you and your children will keep suffering over it, for the rest of your lives.

Guess I'm not very good at pep talks but I AM fairly good, at giving women advice on how to deal with husbands

Here's the problem you face: you need to become "alpha dog" for matters of relationship issues.
That's going to be a tough "fight" against your husband, because he's got 10 years of experience behind him, that makes him think he's in total control of that area.
You have backed down every single time, and given him "top dog" status.

That needs to change. It can change. With a lot of work from you.
I was going to write more, but "a little something" indicated to me, that I should cut it short.

So, i'll stop there.
Let me know if you'd like to hear more from me.

PS: great words from Tomato. dont devalue your needs. Your list of what you need from your H, is completely valid.

[fb2]

Ann, You're still stuck! Try something else! Check out the threads of "smartcookie" and see if it inspires you to take some action that produces results! Ask her questions and kick some *ss. Sorry I don't want to be harsh but I don't want to see you suffer like this either.

[ann25]

Hi tomato - thanks!!

I will ask regardless of the risk of stirring things up a bit. Following each of these three deliveries have you experienced any post-partum depression? I realize that this may not at all be the case, but I was just feeling like that was something I wanted to find out from you, if you didn't mind.

Ask away, i'm pretty much an open book. I've never had any depression, post partem or otherwise. every other aspect of my life is actually pretty good. i love my job. The new baby is amazing and the girls are doing great with her. I havent' been getting much sleep cause the baby seems to be a night owl, but that's to be expected. I never got much sleep anyways. My bills are all paid and i still have money in the bank, so even that is good. The only thing that i struggle with is my H and my M.

I don't even really like him anymore, much less anything more than that. I can't wait for him to go out and i'm happier when he's not here. It's just stressful being around him cause i don't want to do anything to start a fight or piss him off. It seems like i'm really good at doing those things.

When he left today, he said maybe that if i have the house all clean when he gets home, that we could actually have a good night. I told him that the house has been clean and that i will work on it today and he said that he doubted it and drove away. Well, ok then. I start thinking, why should i bother. I still do it cause i like to have a clean house, but it just makes him think that his tactics work. if it wasn't for the girls, i'd suffer with the mess so he didn't think talking to me like that was ok... how do i stop that when he just drives away...

Do not diminish the importance of the things on your list. To decide that you have already said then enough times to him would be greatly diminishing their importance.

I know they are very important things. And every time he says "what am i supposed to do" or some variation thereof, i tell him exactly what i need from him. it may even help for a moment, but it's just not sinking in. You'd think it would make sense that if you love someone, you wouldn't intentionally insult them and hurt them. He tells me that if i did stuff better or didn't do things the way i do, i wouldn't make him say those things. Apparently, I MAKE HIM say what he says. Go figure.

I've never been a quitter, so i'm still here. I just don't see me fixing this alone. I just can't seem to give up though. I feel like i want to, but i just can't.

ann

[ann25]

Hi Dom... as always, thank you

I think the most fascinating part of it, is that your mother told you, before you even got married....
exactly what I have been telling you.

so i probably kinda minimized what my mom said. Specifically she told me to break up with him and date other people because she could tell he was just like my dad... After we got married and i got pregnant the first time, she said are you sure you want to do that with him? She told me i better make him do more and get a job and be nicer to me... now when i talk to her, i just tell her that he's been better cause i don't want to hear it.

Because if you stick to it, you will go through hell for a year, and then have a great marriage afterwards.

I've had more years of hell in my M than good times. We've never had a great M. i suppose the biggest problem is that he's never changed. In 10 years he hasn't changed a bit. I grew up and became a responsible adult and he may as well be 16 still. how do i make him grow up and be a responsible person. A man with a wife and a family rather than a boy with a maid and some kids running around...

If you DONT stick to it, you will go through legal hell for half a year or more...and then you and your children will keep suffering over it, for the rest of your lives.

Dom, you have no idea how much i appreciate your opinions and advice. When i question what you say, it probably only cause i need a harder push... Here is the only thing i don't get. You are convinced that my girls aren't suffering at all. That they are fine in all this. That at least having him there is better than not having him there. He treats them the same way he treats me. He expects too much of them, he yells over stupid little things, he doesn't want to spend time with them, he pretty much ignores their needs. Yes, he's physically in the house, but they have uncles and grandparent that treat them with more love and care than he does. My oldest asked me that if when daddy leaves (for the day) if then we can start having some fun. I'm not arguing that it could be worse if we divorced, but i will not sit by and say that this life is any good for them.

Here's the problem you face: you need to become "alpha dog" for matters of relationship issues.

I know it needs to be, but this just isn't me. I'm trying to be stronger about stuff, but i won't yell and scream with him. Mentally, i can't handle it. I completely breakdown. I'm the only one doing anything in this R anymore, so i don't know what else i'm supposed to do. Maybe you could elaborate cause i dont' think i get exactly what you mean here. I can't change him or make him be different. he has to want to change and make the changes himself.

That needs to change. It can change. With a lot of work from you. I was going to write more, but "a little something" indicated to me, that I should cut it short.

I know it'll be a lot of work, but i don't see it changing anyways... i'm still here, but i just don't have a whole lot of hope right now.

Not sure what the little something was... but Let me have it... i can't fix this on my own and if my H won't help me, i'll take all the help i can get.

thanks again ann

[Dom R]

Well, ok then. I start thinking, why should i bother. I still do it cause i like to have a clean house, but it just makes him think that his tactics work. if it wasn't for the girls, i'd suffer with the mess so he didn't think talking to me like that was ok... how do i stop that when he just drives away...

wait, what?
you seem to be saying, "If he talks to me poorly/disrespectfully about telling me to clean the house.. me not cleaning the house, will 'show him', about talking to me badly".

This is simply not true.
It just escalates a passive/aggressive power struggle between the two of you.


The only thing that will really help you in that sort of thing, is to tell him, when he does it, that he is being disrespectful of you, and how he is being disrespectful.

how do i stop that when he just drives away...

People dont "vanish" when they stop talking you still have 5 seconds or so while he's still in earshot. During which you can yell at him to "get back here, I'm not done talking".
and/or call him immediately, if he has a cellphone.

[ann25]

Hi fb2 - i appreciate the advice and i will check out her thread later... I just kinda feel like i'm at a loss...

Sorta like the guys on the titanic playing the violin as it sank, they were doing their job, but to what end...

i'm thinking it will probably be better once i'm back at work and don't have to be around him as often.

thanks again.

ann