Helping OW??

[Creed]

FA

I believe you have a wise idea of just listening alot.

If I ever get the chance, I will be doing the same thing. I, too, have a gut feeling that that day will come, but in reality I don't think it will be anytime soon..maybe months/years down the road. But something, I don't know what, is telling me it will be sooner than I think.

Also wise is your decision not to say anymore to OW. You're correct..you've said all that you felt you needed to say, and its wise not to feed her anymore. Its time she doesn't have you or your husband to use as a crutch, and stands on her own two feet. She deserves to love and be loved, just like the rest of us, but God will have someone else in mind for her. Someone that will truly be able to give all of themself to her. Not someone that is using her to help themself through a life change they find difficult.

Now that the conversation is over and done with, don't let her bait you into more. It really bothers me that she asked if she could talk to you more. There's something that doesn't ring right about that...not at all. Please be prepared for possible fallout from the conversation.

Zip the Lip is a phrase used on another site quite a bit, and it's something I'm still trying to perfect myself. I think it's very, VERY wise advice from a person that's been there herself and has had a very longstanding restored marriage.

[fooled again]

Thank you, Creed. I have a lot to think about as H was over last night (his idea) and clearly showed me that he is not "done" w/ us. After spending a very pleasant evening drinking wine and talking (no R talk), we ended up ML, which H was clearly hoping for when he came over. This leaves me wondering about what expectations he now has and where he sees things going for us in ths short term. Is he trying to see what he can get away w/ (cake eating again)? Is he trying to tell me he was wrong when he said he was "done"? I can't believe that he has suddenly figured out what he wants in 3 days, so to think that H is ready to come home is ridiculous. I told H that there would be no ML until he figured out what he wanted. Then at the first opportunity, I willingly let it happen. What message does that send him? I have some choices to make in the next few days, and I don't know how easy it will be for me to "zip the lip" and not engage in R talk. Ugh - this sucks

Also I am wondering where H stands w/ OW, if he has contacted her (since June 28th) and if he has told her again that he is "done" w/ our M so as to continue to try to have us both while he figures out what he wants. If so, I wonder if OW will call to see if H has been in touch w/ me - I can't see how she would not since she told me she would only be w/ H if he told me that they were together. This is what happened b/f and we were both pulled back into the "vortex" b/c neither of us really wanted to know the truth. I can't let that happen to me again, but last night has created a conflict in me. What to do???

For now I am simply thinking. H and I have plans to hit some golf balls this evening and the urge to say SOMETHING is nearly irrestible.

FA

[butterflymom]

tough. not sure what I'd do other than pray and think about what you MIGHT say.

Usually when I had something that I wanted to say I decided NOT to say it unles a PERFECT opportunity presented itself.

Many times that opportunity would come and I would see the natural opening to say what I wanted to say. Many times it wouldn't and I would keep my feelings to myself.

Just be in tune to your H and the conversation. Don't push anything, but if you feel a natural opening then I would go for it.

Good luck.

BFM

[fooled again]

BFM,

You are one person I was so hoping to hear from. I know that you continued to ML and allow your H to go back & forth b/w you and OW. And here is my dilemma: clearly H is still very much attracted to me, but I had drawn a line in the sand to say that I would not have a physical (or pretty much any other) R w/ him until he figured out what he wants.

That said, if I push him away, will he go to OW? Or will he say "Wow, I may lose FA completely if I don't get my crap together soon." I'm pretty sure that as long as OW knows I am still part of H's life in that way, it will drive her crazy. I just don't know if I can keep from going crazy myself. I feel in my heart that it's only a matter of time b/f OW gives up - just how much time and will I last that long. Your detachment in your sitch was remarkable. How did you do it? What did you tell yourself to help you deal w/ it?

By the way, I think you are spot on with your "perfect opportunity/natural opening" advice. This is something I have been trying to do more of.

FA

[butterflymom]

leaving work. I'll try to get back on later from home.

I need to think about a good response.

BFM

[Cinderellaman]

FA,

From having read nearly all of BFM's posts, I clearly remember her saying that a physical R with your H whilst there is an ow, is not for the faint hearted. It was very hard to do, but BFM was a genius at detachment...she truly understands the term and she managed to detach herself from the crazy stuff.

I have no advice, but if you have the time, try to look up BFM's old threads, they are full of great advice !

Take care x

[fooled again]

Cinders,

You know, I had read BFM's earlier posts a few months ago. Good idea to start rereading them.

I thought we were so close to H coming home, but I underestimated his state of confusion. Somehow I thought that if H really saw that he was about to lose me he would suddenly wake up. Why would my poor MLCer be any different when he so classically is following the MLC script. Time for more detachment. So H is pursuing me and I am detaching. If I could just lose that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach...

My only consolation at this point is that I have an idea of what OW's state of mind is, and it's not good. There is likely little hope of her ever trusting H again. If I can just be peaceful and detached and show H that I accept that our M is over and move ahead w/ my life, my goals, he will no longer feel pressure from me, only from OW. H said our M is over. Okay, so it's over. But I think I have planted so much doubt into OW's mind that she will push and push and push H back to me. My calm and peaceful acceptance of him now is crucial.

My ultimatum did serve to make sure that H is clear on what I expect from him should he decide to come back to me, but since he says it's over, there is no need to bring those things up. It's like H has said to me a few times, "I already know that. Why to do you keep telling me the same things over and over? Do you think I have forgotten?" I won't make that mistake again - it only makes him angry and pushes him away.

It will also be helpful to reread how MFW was feeling about OW at the time. BFM was so very lucky that MFW was able to talk to her honestly - I so wish my H could open up to me that way. Maybe some day...

FA

[brandnewday]

You are so obsessed with this that I don't think you can see clearly.

Nothing good will come out of this and it will probably blow up in your face.

You are meddling and causing your own problems,and believe me I did this kind of crap also and it backfired.

You are not thinking clearly and maybe you need to step back from this mess before it gets worse.

Unfortunately you have no control over your Husband, there is nothing you can say to the OW that will keep your Husband away from her.

Basically you are trusting the enemy with your game plan and that is just plain foolish nonsense.

I understand that this is your choice, and it is none of my business, but if you could just step away from the situation and allow things to happen on their own, you may end up with a better outcome.

Telling the OW that you are never going to give up on your Husband will make her fight harder for him.

And you really believe that she will never share your conversations with her to your Husband???

Think again.....

[MidwesternGirl]

Listen to BND, she is 1000% right about this.

I, too, did similar things and yep, they sure did backfire.

Thank God, that is behind us now and that my husband is a forgiving person. Whew!!!!!!!!!!

[fooled again]

You are right BND, I am starting to become obsessed. It's just that I thought we were going to be able to do now after all this time. He just seemed so sure, but now he isn't.

Last night we had a nice evening, but when H left I felt a bit sad. I could have left it at that, but I HAD to call him (ugh I just wish I could have stopped myself). I said "You're still done, right?" He said he didn't know. So I asked, "Last night was just sex, right?" He said it was both, sex and more than that too. He asked if he should just not be around me while he was "figuring out where he was going" because he saw how much it was hurting me. I told him that I enjoy being with him and have a really good time - that does not hurt me. I just wanted to know where I stood. He doesn't know...

So, what does a girl do? I am ready to move on w/ my life, really, let H go figure himself out so that he can make the choices he has to make. But he keeps coming back to me, wanting to spend time w/ me, see me, ML w/ me. It's this that makes me crazy - if he just left me alone I would be able to stay detached. I said to him in my letter, make a choice, but if you don't chose to come home, I can't be w/ you. But he is also my friend, so how do I cut my friend out of my life? I don't really want to, but this is not good for me either.

What do I do? Let my H go back and forth and back and forth b/w me and OW? Do I accept him w/ arms open (& legs) when he comes to me and leave him be when he does not? Do I move on w/ my life and make him believe that it is I who is done w/ our M, go dark & not spend any time w/ him?

My convos w/ OW are over, I believe, unless she calls me again. But I suspect that my H has called her b/c of the fact that she hasn't called me back, and so I see us going back into the cycle that we have repeated over and over over the past 2 yrs. OW does not want to know the truth, that H is still seeing me, so she has not called. I on the other hand, do want to know. But I suppose I should assume that he is still in contact w/ her in all this. Maybe she will fight harder for my H now. Maybe it was wrong to tell her I won't give up. Maybe she will tell H that I said so and this will give him comfort in knowing that he can take his time deciding. I don't know anything at this point.

I'm confused b/c I am so close to giving up and walking away. I told OW that I would never give up so that she will always wonder what H is doing, if he is w/ me or thinking about me. She said she could not be w/ him unless he told me that he wanted to be w/ her & stop lying to her. This has not happened. Maybe, just maybe if I can stay calm and detached, it will be OW who will be obsessing, accusing, spying, snooping and losing her mind, pushing H closer to me.

Wise DBers, especially BFM, I guess I need your help more than ever right now. Just talk me down, give me strength, help me stay focused. I don't have many people to talk to about this b/c they all think I should just get on w/ my life.

FA