Helping OW??

[Nutty Chick]

Fooled again..

I can see where you are coming from.

You are not just standing and waiting you are FIGHTING for your H. You have told OW in no uncertain terms that you won’t give up…. Pointed out to her that she will always need to be watching H and that given any opportunity you will take him back. That is a very powerful message to send anyone.

You have also made her se that he is not honest.

I see why you would want to continue discussions with her .. so you know exactly what your H is up to …

My only reservation with doing this is that it could all go pear shaped!
Your H could get fed up with you talking with OW and cut all contact with you all together just so that you have noting to talk to OW about.

On the other hand he may come back to you but get another OW and this time be more careful about being found out.

If he wants to come back it should be because he wants to and not because he has been forced into a corner and has nowhere else to run…

Also, what if she says the same to you? That she will have him back no matter what…. Would having to watch your H all the time make you happy?

Nutty

[fooled again]

Nutty (maybe I'm the one who's really nutty),

I think you may be the only one here who gets me.

You are not just standing and waiting you are FIGHTING for your H. You have told OW in no uncertain terms that you won't give up. Pointed out to her that she will always need to be watching H and that given any opportunity you will take him back. That is a very powerful message to send anyone.

It is a powerful message and it is the truth. But I also see the other side of it, I do see how things can go sideways. And I am very leery of what I say to OW. At this point she is doing 99% of the talking. She calls me, she asks me the questions, she tells me all sorts of things about their R. Of course it is R talk, but in my fight to save my M, some of it is vital info to our financial survival (he owes her alot of $$, I just discovered). She even said to me that she feels that I am OW b/c H and I are separated - now there's a weird twist. She is the one coming off as weak and snooping. I am strong and self assured.

The thing is that I know my H will come back to me one day - though I know it could take a very long time. I don't know how I know but I do - God must be telling me so because I feel it everywhere, all the time. According to H, as of this moment we are "done". Then last night (2 days after he "let me go") he called me to chat, told me he bought me a couple of things I'd been looking for, asked me what I was doing the next day (I'm learning to golf), and offered to teach me. There is no reason for us to be in contact since D is w/ grandparents for two weeks. I know he's not "done".

I told OW that I believe that H wants to come home, but he is having problems facing reality - the guilt, the debt, the enormous mountain of work to be done. So when things get tough, he runs back into his fantasy world w/ her, to charge up his batteries by self medicating. Then he comes back to me, works at it for awhile, runs back to "fantasy island" and the pattern has been repeated over and over, a la MLC-mode. He doesn't have to come to me - I don't chase him, I don't call him, I do my thing. I AM ready to move on w/ my life while H sorts out his issues.

[quote]If he wants to come back it should be because he wants to and not because he has been forced into a corner and has nowhere else to run…[quote]

You are right, and that is the only way I want my H back, by his own choice. If not, he is free to never have anything to do w/ me again except as co-parent.

Today I am meeting H to hit some golf balls (his idea to "teach" me). I will keep it light and congenial, w/ no R talk - after all, our M is over, right? I'll leave it to him to bring up anything to do w/ our R. If he does, my message to him will be that I am moving on w/ my life. If he says he wants to try again, I will tell him that he needs to figure out what and who he wants. The door is still open for now, but my expectations are the same: no contact w/ OW ever again, complete transparency & honesty, move back home. These are non-negotiable. If he ever feels he is really ready to do this, he knows how to find me. But if I back down now, I have no credibility & H will believe he can walk all over me & continue this crazy back & forth cake eating. I will stand & fight for my M, but I will not be taken advantage of.

FA

[mkultra]

I also remember picking up my H's cell phone and calling the last number that I thought was his fishing buddy that he made numerous late night calls to over and over. When a girl picked up I told her that my H had lied about the number. That my H and I had children. That we were having problems in our marriage but that we were married. And did she know that. This kid just sounded scared and said Yes to all my questions. At least she knew! Some OP are lied to. Who would ever want to be an OP??? <ow self esteem or competitive. Cake eating is OK if your H knows it is rewarding for him to come home. Sometimes making the road home look easy and safe is better alternative to the affair. I think guilt, responsibility, and God are not neccessarily incentives to come home from an affair. What do you think? My H's path home is pretty much faded after a year.

[MidwesternGirl]

Fighting for your H and letting OW know that empowers her to fight even harder for him. Did that ever occur to you? I think you are being taken for a fool. I am sorry to say that, but from all appearances you are controlling the situation and it will push your H further from you.

I say allow God to control the situation because you cannot fix this.

With God, all things are possible.

[fooled again]

mkultra,

Who knows what is the best path for the WAS to come home? I certainly don't. All I know for certain is that for the past 2 1/2 yrs what I have been doing has not worked. That is, not asking questions or accusing, trying to be attractive, happy around H, being the best I can be, showing H love, attention, support, ML whenever the opportunity/desire arose (and trying things H had always asked for but I was reluctant), being there when he was down and out, giving, giving, giving. He still went back & forth b/w OW and I.

Doesn't Michelle say if it isn't working, try something else? I just don't know what else there is besides letting H go and letting him see that I am moving on. I know I can't take anymore of his cake eating - it is making me sick and I deserve more. There comes a point where the WAS HAS to make a choice.

FA

[fooled again]

Post deleted by fooled again

[fooled again]

Journaling,

Today H and I met to hit some golf balls. It was fun for me to embark on a new sport (strange though, GALing w/ my H). I suspect that one reason H offered to teach me was that he did not like the picture in his mind of some other man teaching me golf (I keep thinking about the movie Tin Cup). I'm certain that H is trying to hang onto me yet again. And I wonder if he's called OW yet. I could see H getting a lot out of being the "teacher". I asked a lot of questions about the game and H was in his element! But I could only do it for a little while b/f I had the urge to get away from him.

I believe that H really does have no idea that I know about OW over the past couple of weeks - if he did, he wouldn't be so relaxed around me. We had a bite to eat and H talked about his friend who's girlfriend is cheating on him. I wanted to get out of my chair and walk away from him right then. But I sat there & listened, hoping he could hear himself.

When we parted, H came over to me to give me a kiss and a long hug, gave me something he had bought me & told me about something else he ordered for me. Then he asked if he could call me later, alluded to seeing me later. I just don't know what to do on that. I did tell him I wasn't going out, but that doesn't mean I have to be available.

I am also expecting that OW will be calling me later today after her sister leaves. I'm curious about what more she could possible have to say to me or ask me - maybe she won't call. If she does call, I'm trying to figure out if I should tell her about last night and today. I'm sure she'll ask, checking up on H, since the last time we spoke H hadn't called her in a week and me since Thursday.

What I really feel like doing is getting out of town for a few days, but tomorrow I have to work

FA

[fooled again]

steelersfan,

I do not discount anything you say. You have wise words to offer and I see that you have been at this longer than I have (my bomb was 07/06). But I am not trying to fix this. I think what OW is doing is breaking down her own fantasy by talking to me. She too wants to know the truth. As mkultra said,

Who wants to be the OP?

OW certainly doesn't, and each time we talk it slaps her in the face that what she thought was real is an illusion. I am simply being honest w/ her about where I stand. I think that's fair. I'm not competing - if H wants her, he can have her, but she does need to see that I will be there as a part of his life for the rest of our lives b/c of our D. And H has proven to OW over and over that he is not willing to let her into D's life anytime soon. H has also proven over and over that he can't let me go - H pursues me.

OW wants the fairy tale ending - she is realizing that this fairy tale will probably end badly no matter what she does. H even told her himself that the probability of things working for them is very, very small. OW has just come out of her own mess of a marriage and is very weak and vulnerable - she wants marriage, a future w/ H. H was supposed to be her "knight in shining armor coming to her emotional rescue" - a noble, dependable, honest man. She is seeing him for what he truly is - a very confused man who has lied to her and used her. Does he really love her? She is beginning to doubt that. Is H a really good liar? You bet your life, and she said herself that she can't live that way. You see we are both in the same boat.

So steelersfan, I will do what it takes, even if in the short term H moves away from me. I just have faith that he will wake up, that's the only way I can explain it. I absolutely would rather know exactly where I stand than have this "hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil" attitude, or what I don't know can't hurt me. That's bullsh*t. In one of my earlier threads I mentioned The Matrix - I would take the pill that let me to the truth, no question about it.

So I will snoop if H begs me to take him back, again. I will stay in touch w/ OW. I will make sure H is doing what he says he will do, hold him accountable. Do you let a child do what they want & say nothing? Does your boss let you come to work every day and socialize and surf the net instead of working? No, we are responsible for ourselves in the real world.

FA

[MidwesternGirl]

You are aware that when your H finds out what you have been doing--talking to OW and possibly snooping--that will not bode well for you.

You are trying to control the situation on many fronts. You are treating him like a child as well. He will run faster than you can count on one hand. Unless your H likes to be mothered and smothered, this will not work.

Think about this--do you really want your H back? If so, do not do these things.

I do not know your beliefs but I am of the belief that this is something you cannot fix.

One needs to allow their Maker to do the work while we be still.

[fooled again]

I don't know steelersfan, sometimes I wonder what is the right thing to do. Sometimes I wonder if it really even matters what we do or don't do, the outcome will be what it will be. I used to not believe in destiny b/c I hated the idea that my future was predetermined. But over and over in the past 2 yrs I have been hit with evidence that things happen for a reason, there are no coincidences and sometimes it just doesn't matter what we do.

I saw Kung Fu Panda w/ H & D a few weeks ago and the wise old turtle said to the teacher (I'm paraphrasing here) "In trying to avoid your destiny it will find you that much faster" (or something to that effect). It sure made me think about my sitch.

I really do appreciate your concern. I will figure this out, I know I will. But I do have to trust my instinct - I have ignored it for far too long and suffered the consequences. I believe our Maker guides us, but I don't believe S/He does all the work. We must take responsibility for our lives, that is one thing I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt.

And while writing this, my H just called (that happens alot). We chatted about his game, what I did this afternoon, what I was doing tonight. He asked if I wanted company, so I said "sure", not sounding too excited or pleased, just okay w/ the idea. Which incidentally is exactly how I feel. I'm laying off the pressure - he said he was done. Though I am curious if he will head into R talk territory. I'm finished w/ that stuff unless he brings it up, and even then, I'll be doing alot of listening.

No word from OW today - maybe she's decided she needs to move on herself. I have said all that I have to say to her, any more would be redundant.

FA