Well, in my experience, some of these have been working ok:
"...so are you saying that you feel (fill in the blank)? Would you tell me more about that?"
"I can understand why that made you sad (frustrated, lonley, etc.)"
"Thanks for telling me how you feel. That's important information".
P.S. it's a good thing that SO tells you how he feels. It's much harder to respond approprietly, much less validate, if you are being forced to guess how your partner feels.
It's great that you are aware of this need of your H and are working to meet it! Wow!
(And here's hoping he will eventually reciprocate, and reciprocate BIG TIME!)
I have always thought I did a splendid job of validating my H's feelings, but as we've dealt with his MLC, two separatioins, and both of our subsequent depressions, I've had to learn to do this differently.
For one thing, in the eyes of my WAH, I don't do anything right.
Since we're not dealing with a rational person all the time, I can't counter this belief of his rationally, so I just agree with him.
"You're right, I guess I'm not that great with ..."
...driving (HA! I negotiated the LA freeways alone recently) ...computers (HA! I work with electronic files for a living) ...real estate (HA! I refinanced the house myself)
At least I get some amusement out of this. I guess you could call this "ligtening up" aboout criticism. A real benefit of DB-ing for me. Sometimes even he laughs.
So some of my DB-ing has included just admitting I'm not right, and asking him for his opinion. I show my H humility. He stops ranting at me.
It's like dealing with a teenager -- ya gotta realize it is a phase they have to go through (make you wrong) before they can grow up.
(Gee I sure hope they do grow up some day. I see signs this is happening... but it takes a long time.)
Well, humility disarms him and helps him approach me more often. Sometimes he even defend me -- "hey, you're not that bad a ..."
...dog walker (like duh my volunteer work is dog rescue) ...writer (like duh it's been my hobby since kindergarten) ...cook (like duh you eat here just about daily)
I say "I'm sorry, I may have over-talked you just now. Tell me again what you mean."
And let him ride my case ("That's right, you always interrupt..." or whatever other complaint he has), and I don't get defensive. So he comes around more often, tells me more things, and seeks me out frequently to share. Makes me happy. Of course, I'm hoping I get a turn, too, eventually...
The wisdom of "he's teething" and "they don't mean what they say" -- and learning about MLC traits overall -- has helped immensely.
It's hard. My H's thinking has been exclusively negative and he globalizes negative -- which is very unhealthy.
He's feeling angry and misunderstood and takes it out on me -- which is unfair.
But I don't take to heart his downer words (though they have made me cry a lot of hot tears I don't show him). I listen, count to ten, count to ten again, breathe deeply, then commiserate. "It's hard to be out of work so long. It must be upsetting."
I cheerlead when he's positive in any way.
It took a lot of discipline to put my own needs aside and listen, while H was chasing coeds around town.
But the listening (and sandwiches at our kitchen table) were things those coeds could NOT provide -- and over time these have drawn him back into my circle.
Patience necessary here. Don't expect immediate results. But like Michele says, though they look grumpy on the outside, your kindness and even-handedness will be noted somewhere inside them, and will help knit the bond again.
Takes time. But every day you're building muscle -- character muscle -- and it's awesome.
Seems I went on for a long time, didn't I?
We'll talk again soon. Let us know how things progress. You're looking good -- and you've opened an exciting topic.
Glad to hear you're into validating. It's helpful, in many ways.
Knowing your love language, as well as your partner's is very helpful. Also, just developing the skill of doing it yourself really helps, and you'll see big breakthroughs there, too.
I also appreciate and find helpful materials from Dr. John Gottman. He writes a lot about validating. I think you'll find some of his stuff very helpful.
Most of all, in the validating process, don't get so caught up in the fact that you're doing it, but without a purpose. It's easy to get into the activity without direction. Be sure that validate with purpose so that you can go the direction that you want to go.
Keep up the good work. You'll appreciate the growth. Do Right
Quoting Bridget: Patience necessary here. Don't expect immediate results. But like Michele says, though they look grumpy on the outside, your kindness and even-handedness will be noted somewhere inside them, and will help knit the bond again.
Oh sooo, true. Bridget is truely one of the wisest (and poetic) DBer's here.
Happy1, glad to here you think you're on your way to "piecing". This is a transitional stage from making the changes that draw them back into the M to finding what works that strengthens the bond so that the M becomes a good R where you do feel closer to one another than you ever have. Its still a long journey and as always patience is a key requirement. Keep doing what works...
I have been posting on Newcomers but I thought it may be best to work with you all on some steps to get to piecing.
Let me introduce myself. Hello all, gald to be with you. ME 34 QT is my LL SO 36 Affirmation is his LL Sit Just about to get engaged, He walked Reasons..My selfishness, disrepect, taking him for granted all true. I took Sages list and personalized it. Please take a read.
Things that likely contributed to the breakdown:
1. putting so. behind all other things (family, work, working out) Staying with my ps on xmas eve not going to his sisters Workout and not go to his house My job change Complaining about going to ONE family party Staying at my ps instead of his house Being late to pick him up at airport
2. not hearing when so. talked (not hearing him because what he was saying was not blk and white) jealousy about time spending with my family Cycle of thinking of him and then 3 months later return to me
3. when I did pick up on signals (sarcastic remarks, that something is wrong with that statement) I would bring it up quickly and then pass it off, thinking that I brought it up so that was enough. Not sitting down with him and REALLY asking and taking the answer deeply. When I did I would say dont worry about that or there is no need to think that. DID someone say I need to validate? At bar bring up that money is an issue Different tastes in décor At home Depot making him talk to CS about my mirrors
4. not appreciating the things that so. did around the house Said he does work at my house just as if he would for anyone else
5. trying to control all decisions (did this out of fear;I know so sense of superiority;he thinks so THIS is so true. Choosing vacation plans out of country
6. selfish (because so does not make decisions I decided. See #5) My house, my vacation, my family
7. not telling showing him I accepting so for who he is (partly lack of appreciation) Asking him about going back to school Corrected him on his grammer
8. not letting so. really love me, really "get" to me (fear. fear. Fear bc of past R where I was the Giver and got walked on I turned the tables and had in my mind he has to PROVE it. Boy he did, right out the door)
9. not managing my reactions well to h.'s disclosures about himself (wanted it to be perfect or not face problems for fear of him walking away.) I thought I was good at this and I think I am good at this. Getting better but he opens up so infrequently that it is hard to do without guessing and I dont want to guess wrong and piss him off. He told me he wanted to buy a place and then turn it over so he could bring something to the table. I said that was great. 2 years went by and he never bought a place so I asked if we still had to wait to have him buy something and he said yes. Well this meant another 2 years. He still has not bought a place and he will rent another year again.
10. overanalyzing everything and then not analyzing enough (see #9)
12. not being "fun", being too "grown-up" (because I thought I was the only responsible one in the r. and wanted to move to committment) No late nights out at bars Festivals which he like I said are you going to do this until you are 40 Made comments on how he saved his money Saying I wanted to eat a place once a month and I did not plan it
13. Acting reckless in my behavior and taking him for granted (see #8) Asking for -something shiney- Got over emotional when I drank Picked him up late from airport Late to pick him up from his house Brought me dinner all the time Brought me gifts all the time All gifts related to ME and my likes Felt I did not know him as well as he knew me, asked me all the time what was his favorite-as if to test me- Showers always had to be hot At Gejas made him sit in section even though it was too hot for him
14. Getting upset because he was not being CLEAR about what he wanted and I hate mind reading. I would get upset and then turn to taking him for granted. (See #13)
15. not making an attempt to be interested in some of the things that interest him and if I did I was not pleased, it was like a chore. He asked about a place he wanted to go on a short trip. I dismissed it and said it was to cold. He was planning it for my bday and I dismissed it. It did not validate or appreciate all in one full swoop.
16. being disappointed when I didn't get my way. My facial expressions showed this all over. I rarely said, thats a great idea.
17. always wanting my way. Know it all, what an ugly trait. I dont eat meat so dinners at home were veggie. He brought me pasta sauces one night and I said how great which one do you want and he said neither if I wanted pasta I would have gotten meat sauce. I went ahead and made pasta for me.
18. making is seem like "his way" was almost right...but with this slight "my way" edit. Actually, he did this to me more than him
19. not seeing his romantic side. not seeing his vulnerable side.
20. being a naysayer (either directly or through silence) -- not being a cheerleader for his dreams and goals (fear, fear, fear. need for control) His desire to have a summer home I put down bc he did not even buy one place here yet
21. simply not appreciating everything that he offered every day.
Not saying please and thank you Not putting out his gifts like the carving board Not getting up to answer the door when he came over Not giving him the signed tickets to get out of my place Just common courtesy
22. Interpreting his "moods" and "silences" as things are ok, dont rock the boat. WRONGOLA.
All the time, but he never opens up bc he is afraid to hurt me
So now you know WHY he left. What has lead us together is that after 6 weeks of a break I dent him a letter telling him that I had done introspection and realized what I had done. Not to the leve of detail above but enough. He never contacted me until near 8 weeks after the letter. He called me and we called back and forth for while until I cracked and asked why he was calling. He said it was to make sure I was comfortable in social sit IF we see each other. Well, that got me and I asked him to meet so we could get emotions on the table. He reluctantly agreed.
At the meeting we talked for 2 hours and he said that the letter was just word and he knows I am making changes but that he did not want to be together. He believes that I am pushing the problems back on him..I said he left after dropping this bomb and did not stick around to see the changes. So at the end we agreed to be friends and if something else happpens it will be a bonus.
He NEVER changes his mind. Stubborn and insecure.
So we have been talking once a week or so on the phone (he does not have email). Most calls by me but the calls are long, like an hour and we talk about personal stuff..not hows the weather. I get the feeling that he wants me to prove it OR that he feels guilty for walking out.
I am starting to think that to get beyond this I will have to ask for forgiveness.
Here are my thoughts of late. To do this I believe I would have to explain my list of actions (21 or so above) to him which would all tie to R talks. I am willing to do this. I want to do this.
Here are the challenges:
I only have phone contact with him. He does not have email. He does not seem to want to meet with me or see me. Letters he says are just words.
IF I asked him to meet me again he MAY not do it. I KNOW that I WANT to ask. However, I was trying to wait to see if he would talk to me more, want to hang out and then we would talk about it. This does not seem to be happening.
The timing is a BIG issue right now. He just went thru some personal things the past few months. Let me describe..
December My dad gets sick and his parents have a terrible accident
-He breaks up with me over the phone two days before New Years Eve bcause he feels taken for granted and unloved -He gets depressed at Xmas
January -He stays in New Years Eve March -Weekend #1 he has a personal incident -Weekend #2 he has another personal incident that is jsut like the weekend #1 except it got him into serious trouble and keeps him tied up emotionally until June
May -His dad is in hospital again
June -Personal issue is -over- but now is making him feel depressed, feels like he deserves all this and making him think about his life -Dad is in the hospital again and has to stay longer than anticipated and will have to go in again for another treatment. (Now the father sit is key bc his father is model and he has a love hate relationship with him)
July -He has to decide if he wants to rent another year. He goes thru this every year..he wants to by a place but has not looked and not found anything. With everything going on there is NO way he can find a place in one month so he will HAVE to renew rental again for a year (no 6 months..tried this) -His B-Day, July 25. Again he HATES his b-day and gets depressed.
So how do I do this, when do I do this? I wanted to give the phone thing a try until August and then ASK for Forgiveness..but that seems so long. It seems like me not admitting my faults to him is holding him up.
What would you all think about video taping my apology. Would this be outrageous. Has anyone tried this?
TELL ME YOU ARE NOT GOING TO VIDEO TAPE AN APOLOGY!!!
That is THE last thing you want to do unless getting him to think you can't handle his distancing is what you're after. Apologizing allthough sincere, is not attractive to an alien. If I'm him, I want to see strength, I want my request for space and friendship respected, and above all, I want to know you are not emotionally reliant on me. I'm the guy, let me initiate the R stuff if and when I'm ready. Right now I'm not ready, and I really appreciate you respecting that and listening to me when I confide in you. Thats pretty much what is going thru his mind based on reading your posts.
Happy, you did so well the last time you talked to him because you did not pressure him and you listened to him when he discussed important personal issues with you. For now, I would suggest you do not go over your 21 points with him, he is not mentally or emotionally at that level where he can appreciate those intentions. That list is like 21 boxes of TIDE to him right now Happy, he's not ready for that.
Take it slow, I think your best medium for communication is the phone. Stay dark, this stuff takes time. Be the quiet kind confidant behind the scenes while he deals with his issues. Like I've said before, he knows you're there, he knows what you want, he knows you're willing to make changes and sacrifices, he knows all that. Let him be, draw him back by lovingly detaching.
Keep working on your PMA, you've got a big trip planned, you've been working out, you're looking good, summer is here. Let the sitch rest and unfold on its own, at least until you get back.
OK I am over the rant about a video apology, but I have bought a book called the Power of the Apology..as recommended by others on the bb.
The other things I have realized is that my SO is in need of me proving I am consistent and not just being nice for short time.
I believe I am in the opposite position of most of you given the insecurity of my SO. The realilty is that I have to ACT as IF he is special and do things just a bit above friend level. I have to be the one who calls and initiates.
This is hard to do being the woman pursuer..very awkward. Not being there shows I do not care and I know that is how he thinks. I have talked with another individual who was in this sit adn he said, yes..be consistent, call, send letters keep making him feel special..the moment you stop contacting the self-fulfilling prophecy he has in his -that you do not and cannot really change will come true.
This is a 180 for me to keep it up, because in the past I would quit after a time of being nice.
So this week, I did leave a message last Sunday (Fathers Day)that I appreciated him being there for my father back in Dec. and that I wished his father a speedy recovery (his father is in the hospital)
Then today, I left him a note on his door and a lot of TIDE (I had left over from a trade show)The note said..
Quote: Have fun at Bubble Land (the laundrymat) I wanted to get this to you before I left for vacation and say goodbye 'Bye!' I will talk to you when I get back on the 3rd.
I have to apply the opposite of some techniques with this man. Any one else have ideas, been in this sit or had this happen?
I understand, perhaps you are 180ing correctly if you really feel he needs proof that you're consistent in terms of initiating and being nice.
If this is what he's looking for, then I'll expect him to acknowledge your efforts somewhere down the line, hopefully soon. Meanwhile, I'd still balance it with proper spacing while he works thru his issues.
