Wife is considering filing - Need Help

[LosingSunshine]

Okay, I am at a pc and will try to make some sense out of yesterday evening.

So, W gets home from work and notices that I am not in work clothes and asked if I had a 1/2 day. I said no that I went golfing this afternoon with some of the guys from work. She asked with whom but couldn't respond because I was busy with the kids. As we were eating she reminded me that her friends would be coming over and that she wanted to spend some time with the kids this evening before they did. I said okay but I would be taking them outback after dinner to play. I did that and brought them in and left.

Went to Sbux for some iced green tea and read Sandi's post. I saw her point and decided to swing by the house a little after that and we ended up getting into a confrontation. I sort of initiated it by asking what she was going to be getting ready for storage and said that nothing that is considered shared property should be moved out. I also told her that I was looking into just buying her out so I can keep the house for me and the kids. This sent her into a tizzy because:
1. She realized that for me to do so I would have to rely on my parents financial resources and therefore, I must have talked to parents.
2. She became concerned about custody issues and started throwing in my face how she has taken care of the kids for the past 4 years while I drank. I responded that I can't change the past and that I have provided for this family for the past 4 years. I tried my best to remain calm, not swear etc...She was angry, yelling, and crying.
I told her that I do not want to end this marriage. I do not want to sell the house. I do not want this. You do.
All the while, her friend (alternative lifestyle - female) was very near us during this conversation and at one point, she was going to get up to check on 4D and not mean, but firm, I said no. I ended the conversation and left the house.

Met up with some friends at the local brewpub. They had some drinks, I had a Sierra Mist! Kind of funny as the folks there are okay with me just chilling, having fun and not drinking. Good atmosphere, good food, good people. So we leave there and I head home.

When I get home, I ask the W if she had a moment. I just wanted to diffuse the sitch so as to not have her remain angry at me. We ended up talking for about 30 minutes.

Key points from conversation.
1. W said her new friends can't understand the way she feels. They can't understand why she doesn't want to work through the issues....how she's so numb to the M.
2. W feels that I have been ignoring her and was upset because I have shown no emotion/feelings about any of this (LRT impact)
3. I talked too much about what I want, how I feel about the sitch but did keep the conversation balanced by listenting to her, validating her feelings etc...I just felt that I needed to say those things because it is what I want. At that point I didn't really care if it put pressure on her. I needed to open my heart to her to see if she was listening.
4. Nothing really has changed feeling wise. Doesn't believe that she can ever love me the way she feels that there should be love within a M and feels that there is someone out there that can make me much happier. Only views me as a friend.
5. Issue: she allowed us to focus so much on my career at the expense of what she wants. Is angry that I have not supported her career.
6. Issue: allowed to much focus on me. Enabled my selfishness
7. Issue: She just wants focus to be on her.
8. Issues: everything else that has been going on. Doesn't want me to be angry. Doesn't want the D to get messy. Just wants it done so she can move on.


All in all, it was a good conversation eventhough nothing really changed. Somewhere in the talk, I somehow got her to agree to do a joint MC session, just 1. I told her that I don't want her to do it if she doesn't want to. I ended the conversation on a somewhat good note, went downstairs and apologized to her friend and went to bed.

Also, afterwards, I am beginning to really understand how much she is the WAW. She is so numb to everything right now. Everything about the past is negative. She knows, and has said as much, that I can change for the positive. She just doesn't want to be M anymore. She said that I don't understand but thanks to the folks in this community. I do. I really do.

This morning, I awoke, got ready, got my 4d ready and 2S ready. W finally comes up stairs and said that I look really good today. A few minutes later she says that she can notice that I have been losing weight. Since 2D wasn't being cooperative with eating Cheerios or fruit, she made pancakes again as I finished up putting away the dishes and taking out the trash. She brought up how she'll be going to the movies late tonight and brunch tomorrow with some friends. I said okay. The kids and I have a busy day planned tomorrow, pool, picnic and fireworks. She asked if we were still going camping and I said unsure. She asked who all would be there and I told her. She asked how far away the lake was and I told her.

So, somewhat of a backslide, but not really. Not sure how much of the recent gains I lost yesterday but I had to draw the line regarding the house. I had to stand up and not let her walk over me...and by the evening, I was showing compassion to her needs and wants. Still no emotion to the sitch. I am PMA, GAL, moving forward as if, and remaining strong and calm for myself and the kids.

Well, more LRT. I somehow need to help her find that small glimmer of hope deep down in her heart. I need her to bend just a little (joint MC session) and then just a little more. She is responding to what I want when I ask (IC on Sunday and MC yesterday) but she is doing so for my sake, not hers.

How much time before she finds that glimmer and decides to open up to it? This is where patience comes in. I am learning to be patient. I am becoming a better listener. I am becoming a better man and father.

[LosingSunshine]

Well, I picked up the 5 Love Languages during lunch and managed to read through the first few chapters. I believe my wife's language is a combination of words of affirmation and acts of service. Of course, my current 180s fit nicely into the acts of service, sort of and I guess my question to those of you out there...

Have any of you, during LRT tried to incorporate words of affirmation when you and WAW do talk?

As I pull back, she is being drawn closer, such as the questions from her this morning. I haven't asked much or said much since this whole sitch began (I have been LRT). Seeing some progress but train is still speeding down the track. Would it be of use to try to fill her emotional love tank? Would she be open to it?

Thoughts?

[LosingSunshine]

So, W friend stopped by again and we chatted for a few minutes. To my surprise, she was rather supportive and encouraging my W to try C (this is what she says). I remained rather positive during the conversation knowing that almost everything I said is probably being told to my W right now as I type.

I was listening to her but blocked a lot of what we were talking about so as I wouldn't spend the next hour analyzing it but some key points.

1. She told my W last night that the last thing she wants is a nasty D. No one wins, just the L.
2. She told my W to talk with me more about things.
3. She told W to try C
4. She told me that W is still juggling between whether she loves me as a friend and father of the kids, or as a husband. HMMMM. W told me, just as a friend. Could this be good intel?

All in all, a conversation I did not want to have but when someone pops into your office, well...

Still going forward with LRT and going to incorporate words of affirmation to see if that does anything.

Thoughts anyone?

[Phoenixdeux]

LS,

I only read the last three posts of yours so I'll just address the things you asked.

You asked about using words of affirmation now that your relationship is on the skids. I say that it is possible (if you actually still talk), but you have to be careful with how you do it. Come on too strong and it's pursuing.

Okay, so her issues (which to me also suggest WOA as LL):
You talk about yourself, not her.
You have not been supportive of her career
By default, this also says that you haven't valued her as a person, just your own career and yourself (it doesn't matter if it's not true, just if that's her perception of reality).

This is a situation where you may have to venture really close to relationship talks. You have to find ways to validate her value as a person and to you without making it fakey or over-the-top pursuing.
1. Since she still seems to want to fight some...that gives you an opportunity to validate. "I can see how it would feel that way to you." or "I can see how that would be painful and even make you shut down your feelings." Can you see it? If not, try to see it.
2. You need to find some ways to make indirect compliments that show her that you do value her. Consider, "that's always been your strong suit, not mine." "You were always good at x,y, or z". These really do get to be easy. You just think about her strong suits and find ways to subtle introduce them into discussions.
3. Use questions as much as you can get away with. It sounds like you should ask about her career some..."how was work. Has it been satisfying." (those were weak ones...you know her job, so think about what's important about it). Listen to her complaints about it. If you hit this "career issue", it gives you opportunity to show interest, find indirect compliments about her abilities (ie "I'm sure you handled that great since you do x,y,or z so well), and you validate that she doesn't feel you supported her (that doesn't mean you didn't support her career, just that you understand that she feels that way). You have to think about these things some. It can't be false flattery, but there must be things you've never told her before or often enough about what her strong suits are.

Lastly, sometimes there comes a time to just sit still. Be strong, be happy, be polite, be a good guy, but don't be aloof or always gone. GAL is fine, but excess makes it look like you don't give a crap. It's okay to just be still. Let her world unravel around you while you stay solid.

Any of that any help? Think about it. Try to introduce some WOA into conversation.

Me

[LosingSunshine]

Phx, thanks for stopping by.
I like your advice about just sitting still. One of her complaints was that I was always running around and not helping. I 180d with the helping and she is giving me some free time, so to speak, to go do my thing when she's not galavanting around town with her friends. It would be another 180 to employ. I'll write more as I am out right now.
Thx again!

[sandi2]

Hi LS, well, it has been rather exciting around your house, hasn't it? I may have been wrong about what kind of influence her friends are having on her with the statement about they don't understand how she feels, etc., but I still don't trust them. Just take it as female intuition.

I hate that the fight broke out in front of the four year old daughter. That is not good! You need to avoid that--if you have to take the child to the other room to watch TV or something. I understand anger. When I am mad....I'm mad right then, but I have learned that children cannot deal with seeing their parents fight. It scares them to death, plus it displays a role for them to follow when they get older. Anyway, enough of that, b/c I think you realized what was happening when you saw the child was crying.

I won't say too much about your conversation with her later that night. You've already pointed out how you had a strong need to get your feelings off your chest and explain to her how you felt. However, you found out that she has NOT changed her mind about anything where you or the M is concerned, so I hope you will not have this kind of "talk" with her anymore b/c it is losing ground. You go no where with it.

Well, more LRT. I somehow need to help her find that small glimmer of hope deep down in her heart. I need her to bend just a little (joint MC session) and then just a little more. She is responding to what I want when I ask (IC on Sunday and MC yesterday) but she is doing so for my sake, not hers.

I am not sure that you are fully understanding the LRT, but I won't expound on that anymore now. I do wished you had not made another appointment for a joint MC, especially after the last time. You see, you are still trying to "fix her", sweetie, and you can't. I know you want to give her some glimer of hope! I also know how numb she feels right now (remember me? A almost WAW?) and I don't think that going to yet another MC is going to change her. You said yourself....she is doing it mostly for your sake. You saw her warming a little and it gave you hope to try one more time, didn't it?

Well, I picked up the 5 Love Languages during lunch and managed to read through the first few chapters. I believe my wife's language is a combination of words of affirmation and acts of service. Of course, my current 180s fit nicely into the acts of service, sort of and I guess my question to those of you out there...

Yes, that is a good book if you haven't waited too long to apply the principles in it. As I told one man that was headed for D court....he should have been using that book when before his W reached the point she no longer wanted him near her. If she is in that spot......it is too late to be able to do what the book suggest. That is for "improvements" for a MR, not to wait until almost D and then start tying to use it.

Have any of you, during LRT tried to incorporate words of affirmation when you and WAW do talk?

That is really for a man to answer, but I think words of affirmation is good.....but it can be tricky if a man is not wise enough to know when to use them and how to use them. Know what I mean? To me, it is about the same as validation. A wife needs and wants despartely to feel valuable, adored, cherished, loved, etc. "Words" was what I always need to hear from my H and never got it. Some H's wait too late, but if you feel that the timing is right to say something that will sound sincere and not like you are kissing a$$ just to get her to stay with you.....then I think it would help. But be wise in what you say and do....and timing is important.

As I pull back, she is being drawn closer, such as the questions from her this morning. I haven't asked much or said much since this whole sitch began (I have been LRT). Seeing some progress but train is still speeding down the track. Would it be of use to try to fill her emotional love tank? Would she be open to it?

I don't want to pull you down, but isn't this exactly what you had said previously? Yes, that is how DB works...you pull back and she draws closer. However, we thought that b/c she was asking all the questions about the weekend, it was b/c she was being interested in you and what you were doing in you GAL. Only to discover she had plans of her own about the weekend and wanted you out of the house. Think about it. She wants to know where you are going and how long you will be gone, and all the details. Don't you find that a little strange? She would know just how much time she had to do whatever it is she is planning. I hope she is not setting you up.

So, W friend stopped by again and we chatted for a few minutes. To my surprise, she was rather supportive and encouraging my W to try C (this is what she says). I remained rather positive during the conversation knowing that almost everything I said is probably being told to my W right now as I type.

Yep, you can count on it. BTW, is this the same "friend" that was kind of tying to hit on you where you work?

As far as what she told you she said to the W and all.....it sound a little too good to be true. I mean, I hope she really is a positive influence on your W and helping her to see through the fog.....but I don't know. Maybe I too suspicious.

All in all, a conversation I did not want to have but when someone pops into your office, well...

Yeah, I think we've been over this before.

Lastly, sometimes there comes a time to just sit still. Be strong, be happy, be polite, be a good guy, but don't be aloof or always gone. GAL is fine, but excess makes it look like you don't give a crap. It's okay to just be still. Let her world unravel around you while you stay solid.

That sounded like good advice you were given from Phoenixdeux.

You had talked several post back about need to know how to draw boundries, etc. So I went to my favorite "gunslinger in town" and asked him to drop by and see you. That is just my was of teasing him, calling him gunslinger. He believes in using tough love with WAW's and W's in MLC and especially if there is OM involved. Anyway, he has a sweet name "Puppy Dog Tails".....but don't let that name throw you......he really is a gunslinger..lol. But, I like him and I think he is very wise about how to deal with boundries. If he does drop by, at my request, you can listen to his advice and if you don't like it....you sure don't have to take it. But, I went to him out of my care for you and your stitch. I felt as though you were at a crossroads at the last stitch I read when I posted to Puppy. When I returned.....there were a bunch already added. Life moves fast around here!

LS, I hope you realize that we all want to help and yet there are some things that only time and God is going to change. If she is hell bent on leaving......you may have to set her free and not fight her. The more you try to hold her back from leaving you, the more she will resist and want her freedom. I don't blame you where the house is concerned and I'm proud you stood up to her about that. So what if she gets mad? What else is new?

Since it is so late, I'm afraid that your plans are set for the weekend and you won't change them now. However, do you have somebody that could drop by the house while you are gone in order to just check on things? She wouldn't like it, but if she is up to no good...it doesn't matter if she doesn't like it. If she gets caught, then so be it. She may pretend that she isn't taking "shared property", but if you had somebody that would know the difference of what shared property included and what was just her personal belongings.......well, just think about it. I sincerely hope I am wrong about this. If I'm right, I hope she'll change her mind. WAW's do that a lot, so maybe that will be one of those times. I know you want to trust her, but rmemeber, this is not the girl you married. Right now, you really can't afford to trust her very far.

Okay, I'll hush. Take care LS. Sure hope things take a big turn for the better.

Sandi

[sandi2]

Would it be of use to try to fill her emotional love tank? Would she be open to it?

I meant to reply to this part. It is kind of like the words of affirmation. Filling her love tank is what needed to be done before you reached this point in the MR. I can't say how she may see it if you try to do that. She may see it as pressure or pursuing. I think I would have when I was wanting to leave my H. These are principles to apply to make a M stronger and keep it healthy, but your M is broken right now. Until she can have time to heal and "want" to at least stay with you, I just am not sure how receptive she will be to you trying to fill her "love tank". what did you have in mind? How would you do it without it coming across as pursuing?

Just more of my thoughts.

Sandi

[LosingSunshine]

Thx again Sandi!

Well, where to begin. My plans this weekend are only for tomorror with the kids and she has some plans as well. The rest of the weekend will be spent just hanging with the kids at the house. Actually, all except for going to the pool tomorrow I should be home most of the day. My hope if that she was asking so that she could make plans of her own based on what I was doing...but you never know.
As for R talks, I have to distance myself from those but during the heated discussin yesterday she brought up how I have been ignoring her. Is that normal?

You also said that you won't expound on LRT right now but please do. I am still focused on my 180s and will be taking phx's advice about staying still. I had actually been thinking about that and an glad he brought it up as one of her complaints before the bomb was that I was always out and about albeit it was for errands etc...it's her POV that matters now.

As for something up her sleeve, she knows that financially we can't do anything until the house sells...at break even or slighly better hence her push. She Asia that she doesn't want to be here a year from now because the house won't sell...we live in SD and houses don't really sell in the winter. Something with the sub zero tempa and snow.
In any case, the way I am looking at LRT is such:

No R talk
No pursuing type behaviours do my 180s
Detach
PMA
GAL
Engage in small talk when around W
Respond to email and calls but not right away

What am I missing? I have ro work hard this week to stop R talk...avoid it like the plague.
I also won't bring up C anymore. C was going to reach out to her next week anyway for IC but I won't bring up MC again until she does.

Still going to try WOA during small talk. I actually did it tonight when I came back. I basically thanked her and told her why instead of just the usual thank you.
I also look forward to any advice that PDT can give. Thank you for that Sandi!

[LosingSunshine]

So W has been gone since yesterday evening and I wonder, as do the kids, if she'll be home tonight. I am not planning on it and will make plans to have fun with the kids tomorrow. I can understand not wanting to be around me but the kids...
So I am waiting for dusk to start launching fireworks with 4d. The good thing about living in SD is that you can buy almost anything you want.

What's everyone else up to tonight?

[LosingSunshine]

Well, W finally came home tonight just after I finished reading 4d some books. 4d did some big cheeleading for me regarding how heat of a day she had. W said thx and that she really appreciated me. Since 4d was still up and was the center of attention the w And I actuasly had a non R talk0that was very pleasant. Given the tone etc... I took the chance to ask her how she liked the moviera that she mentioned that she watched w friends. It was just a pleasnat convo. I even noticed that she kept looking at me when we weren't talking. Not evil stares either! Interesting still is that she asked me if it was okay for her to go see Neil D in a few weeks with her friends???

So, after I put daughter down, she went downstairs to get ready for bed. I retired shortly theeafter. I didn't want to be available to screw up what was a nice chat.
She has no other plans for the weekend and I don't really either. Just mow the lawn and spend time with the kids. I'll try to employ another 180 tomorrow by not being constantly out of the house running errands. We'll see what happens. u