Dance you are a one-of-kind lady, I'm not sure if you are inspiring us SSM guys on here or torturing us.... Stop... don't... stop... don't stop... don't stop... don't stop...
Doc B. has enlightened me on something that I had never seen before when commenting on Silly's thread - maybe I have this "Taken in Hand" (I'll be researching that site for sure) type of relationship with my own wife. Here are the reasons why I think this may be the case:
- She NEVER initiates, that has always been left up to me.
- During ML she ALWAYS wants me to take the lead on what we do. If I ask, "do you want me to do 'this' or 'that'?", the answer is usually "yes" or "whatever you want to do."
- If I try to ask her what SHE wants, the answer is usually, "I don't know, what do you want?"
- She is NOT VOCAL at all, this even happens if there is no one around to hear the noises. This used to bother me until she explained that she can concentrate better on her O in silence. (I now wonder if there is a submissive side to it too.)
- I have tried to coax instruction from her about what I should do differently during an act and she resists. I think it even annoys her for me to ever ask.
- She will resist trying new things, but if I insist she will usually go along and then enjoy it.
This even happened last night, I took charge and she just really seemed to let go. I tried something that she sometimes does not prefer, but in this "let go" state she just went with it and loved the experience (big O).
Have the two of us been in the dark all of these years about this and that has been part of our problem???
Baggy - great points you are making about men who grew up around us women who grew up with feminism. It has some serious backlash problems, doesn't it? I'm so glad that some of us lucky ones are figuring out where we went wrong.
I'm really just lucky that my man already "gets it" and has been there and seen for himself what women really want. He has not gone through any damaging relationships that took away his alpha-ness. It was tempting to be very insecure about his vast experience when I first met him...but soon enough it became evident that, HEY I am the one who gets the benefits of all of his experience! YAY ME!
Cinco - Keep at it! Keep reading and understanding! Don't rush into anything you've read on the "Taken" website but defintely let it sift into your mind as a hidden truth about women and the world about you. Yes, we have all been missing the point a lot of times...I have been more guilty than most during my marriage. What a waste of a lot of sad years, and I still regret to this day that my ex-h and I could not have tried a bit harder.
One point about her not being vocal...sometime while you are in the midst of passion, could you softly say to her "tell me you want it". She will likely just look confused at first. But whisper it again, more naughty the second time, "tell me you want me to F you". Be a little firm but not pushy. Even if she just smiles and refuses to say it, her sheepish smile will tell you that she like you giving her direction. Do this every so often and I bet you one of these times, she's going to say it. Make sure you do this at a good point in the middle of the passion when she already has most of her walls down.
As for "stop...don't stop..." Hee hee...you know, I have to be very careful. Because being that this great sex life is all new to me, I literally want to shout from rooftops, as if I've won the lottery. But ... of course:
1. I don't want to "brag" per se, that's just not me.
2. I truly don't want to say things that turn people on just for the sake of turning people on. I am 100% faithful, even to the extent that I would never just engage in this topic as just conversation. I realize that it is possibly going to turn men on just reading it or hearing it. Not my intent but it is reality.
3. I know that some of my great sex life is literally so far out there that no one will relate even if I do try to discuss it with them.
So I end up in a bit of a quandary, where I feel I have this great new-found knowledge and want to share it, but the subject matter is too titilating to just lay it all on the line with just anyone.
I feel safe here on this forum so I can say more than usual. I also have to walk a line with what I know my man would or wouldn't be ok with me saying....
But again, for now I feel safe. Thanks you guys, you are both great.
Dance, I'll try coaxing the "talk" form her, I like your suggestions. I won't be rushing into anything on the "taken", but it is an interesting revelation for me. She really disagrees with much of what the feminist movement pushes, but growing up when we did you can't help having it seep in a bit.
I'm waiting for Doc B's book when it hit the shelves, I have learned so much from you man. You really could write a book on this topic.
I just never thought of my wife as submissive. My thinking was always that she just wasn't that much into ML. BTW she is not into pain at all. It's not about the roughness it's more about my taking the lead role. I think that applies to other areas of our relationship too. During our trouble years I wasn't leading, I was following. I'd go along with whatever decisions she made, which looking back she didn't want to do. The less involvement for me back then the better.
It makes sense to me now, "what happened to this man I wanted to depend on." I was this wimpy quarter-of-a-man, why would she want to ML with me? "He can't lead in our marriage, how can he lead in the bedroom?"
Good news I am working on strengthening all aspects of my new life with her and it shows now in a big way.
Groans loudly....I knew that I should have never revealed that. Keep in mind that my degree is far, far away from here, in the so-called 'hard' sciences: nothing to do with people or even living organisms. Around this joint, I'm just the cranky old panther (with a big heart) from The Jungle Book, and no more expert than anyone else.
Quote:
...on something that I had never seen before when commenting on Silly's thread - maybe I have this "Taken in Hand" type of relationship with my own wife.
A few strong cautions are in order here:
(1) It may be hard to tell the difference between a woman who is sexually submissive or just sexually inhibited. Many women, who might even prefer a more dominant, or at least a 'switch' role, in the bedroom don't know how, because of their Nice Girls Don't upbringing and a desire to avoid hurting their man's male ego. It's hard to tell from what you've described.
(2) There are many women (and some men) who prefer to be sexually submissive by night, but dominant (or at least equal) by day in their relationship with their spouse. This is just their bedroom-style, not their life-style. In today's society and 'modern,' equal partner marriages, I would guess that most sexual subs fall into this category.
(3) The Taken in Hand (TIH) relationship has two key components: first, it is male-dominated both in and out of the bedroom, and second, it is the free choice of both partners to have this kind of relationship. It cannot be set up by coercion, or by tradition: only by the woman's free consent and choice. It's probably only for a minority of couples in today's society.
So there's my warning flares. Research everything and then --> talk to you wife <-- and get her input. If it's something she wants / has been wishing for, she may not be able to say so directly, but she needs to be clear enough for you to take the hint. If it's something that she objects to, then she will hopefully make that clear too.
Best regards,
-- B.
Last edited by Bagheera; 07/03/0807:39 PM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Ok from now on it'll be Bagheera or just plain B. I just thought once you guys got that PHD you loved hearing that....reminds me of one of those old Faulty Towers episodes with the two Doctors coming to stay.
Cinco...be careful not to look for an "answer" at "Taken".
Even if your wife secretly yearns for that type of lifestyle, at first, if confronted with it, she will likely be opposed to the idea that she can be neatly described in a box like that. Does that make sense? In other words, she isn't fully aware *herself* right now what she truly wants. She will not read through that website and go "oh my goodness, finally something that describes me to a T!"
People want to feel they are special, and that their feelings are not just the same as every one else's. It is difficult to pass along something really new and radical, such as the "Taken" website as "look honey, I read this and wonder if possibly you are feeling this way"?
There is a lot of work to do between you first.
First instance...your story about the driving had me a little bummed out for you that you are struggling with patience in that regard. Do you know what a gift it would be to your wife and children if you could just allow them to have their spats and problems without it upsetting you on top of it all?
Things like that need to be worked on before you try to *define* you and your wife's roles to a definitive end.
And as for Baggy...he's a doctor whether he wants to be or not. ;0)
Some people are natural healers, and many healers heal others before they themselves get healed.
"Look for the bare necessities, The simple bare necessities, forget about your worries and your strife! I mean the Bare necessities are mother nature's recipes..."
Ah I miss the days when my kids were little and I could watch Disney movies with them over and over....oh wait a minute....HECK NO I DO NOT MISS THOSE DAYS! I couldn't swing from chandaliers then! LOL!
Both of you Baggy and Cinco...There is a book called "Guide to Getting it On"....best sex book EVER. More of a manual than a self-help book, including beautiful sexy illustrations....best money I ever spent!!!
Link to the book at amazon (not sure where else to get it - I got mine at Barnes and Noble but it was a while ago):
Dance, I did control it about the driving spat. I was really proud of myself. I didn't stuff my feelings about it I just bit my tongue I didn't say what was really on my mind. I just firmly encouraged them to keep at it and don't give up.
Don't worry I would never send her to that site and I haven't even bought a sex guide yet (thanks for the recomendation). No way we are ready for that step yet. Right now we are just warming up to each other again and getting used to the idea that it *does* really feel good to have that intimacy back. We even haven't really done much R talk lately. After that week where I kept talking R I decided, enough talk start doing those things and let the changes sink in.
Only when those changes are solidly in place will I try R talk again. One step at a time. In my case less talk and analysis and more consistant action works best.
The submissive light bulb was more of a hmmmm fascinating, wonder if moment than, that is the answer to everything! I do know the more of a lead role I take the more she likes it anyway.
Me49 W49 D17 M23 Sep01 Me PA 1 Jan02 filed D Mar02 ended A 1 reconcile Apr08 Me PA 2 May08 ended A 2 Aug09 A's revealed My latest thread Drive
Cinco...be careful not to look for an "answer" at "Taken".....
There is a lot of work to do between you first.
Listen to the woman, Cinco! There are indeed, no magic bullets in repairing a broken, sex-starved marriage. only months and months of hard work for BOTH of you.
Look at my case:
Last July (7/07), My wife and I were reunited after a six-month separation wherein I found within myself the desire and drive to fix my broken marriage.
In August (8/07), and beginning with John Gray's Mars/Venus book, I began a research campaign to figure out 'how' to fix my marriage, putting into practice what I liked, and discarding what didn't seem to work.
In November (11/07), I found Michele's SSM book, and my wife read it and had her own epiphany about men and physical intimacy. Breakthrough #1.
By December (12/07) I had joined this site and shared a little of my story...all the while my wife and I are making slow improvements in our relationship.
In February (2/08) we found an individual / couples / sex therapist to help us out and have been seeing him ever since.
In May (5/08) my wife finally had the confidence in our marriage recovery, and trust in me, to reveal what she really needed in order to be happy both in and out of the bedroom -- it was time for me to 'man up' and take charge. Breakthrough #2.
It's now the following July (7/08), and while a lot of progress has been made, we have a long ways to go yet....
As you can see, this is a long progression of steps, one building upon the next. It was not until 10 months into the process that my wife felt ready for us to make the move towards a TIH relationship, and even then, we are proceeding *very slowly* onto this previously untrodden ground.
So as DQ says, you've got a lot of work in front of you, some A's to ultimately deal with, and a lot of trust to rebuild before bringing up TIH to your wife, i.e. her trust in you (which is KEY).
Also, in the name of being 'fair and balanced' there is an alternative female-led relationship site called Around her Finger. One of the ways in which I confirmed to myself that I could take the pathway that my wife indicated she wanted (toward TIH) was to look over this sight. It made me cringe. There are other couples, however, for whom it works, and it just shows that the solution for every couple is different.
Take care,
-- B.
Last edited by Bagheera; 07/03/0808:34 PM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Yay Cinco...you're a keeper...for which I am sure your wife is glad. :0)
Buy the Guide...it will be a great little diversion for you and your wife both. Because it is a guide/manual, it won't be threatening to her. Plus it is full of very tasteful beautiful but erotic illustrations. Similar to the Joy of Sex but much better and way updated. I doubt she will be offended if you pick it up one day and sneak it into the bedroom for later when the kid are asleep and then say "honey...I found this at the bookstore and it just seems so full of information I had to buy it. I'm going to flip through it more later but for now, would you look through some of these beautiful pictures with me?"
