Hi, D ~ head is fine, stomach is a little iffy. More coffee should help, so hopefully I won't ramble for a really long time
We still have a really long way to go, but he was really open yesterday and I feel hopeful. I worked so hard to be okay with his leaving and not loving me any more - not that I was okay, but I could see that I might be at some point - and the thought of having to do that AGAIN is almost more than I can bear, should he decide once more that he doesn't love me, or if he can't stay 'clean'.
I will ask him about counselling (H and S left early this morning for yet another baseball tournament), but I don't think he'll want to go that route. Have you ever read The Women's Room, by Marilyn French? Two of the characters have a falling out, and the one who has been 'abandoned' does a lot of analysis about the situation, getting to the point that "she understood it so well that it didn't hurt her anymore". I feel like that a lot of the time - until I really let myself touch the pain of it, which I am not doing very often - I can look at our marriage and totally understand why my H made the choices that he did, especially when I factor in my knowledge about his childhood. I think the more I know, the less I'll speculate, so if he doesn't want to talk to a counsellor, I would really like to continue to examine our history together. I wasn't perfect yesterday by any means, but I did manage to just listen for the most part, and knowing him as well as I do and with the amount of reading I've done lately (and over the years), I think we might make better progress just on our own. The thing that can't happen is nothing, no form of processing at all.
I had lots of times when I felt like I was settling, like there was someone else out there who would be a better match for me, without all those flaws my H has. He said that something he has come to realize lately is that no one/no relationship will be perfect, something that it took me a while to get to as well. Sure, the fit might be better in some ways, but there will always be areas that grate - it's a matter of adjusting to the differences in a way that respects both partners. Realizing that it's okay that I'm not perfect has apparently freed him from the 'need' to keep looking for that perfect person/relationship.
I'm not really into joining things (except for book club, I guess - that's been going on for over 10 years now!), but H and I need to make time together a priority - just get it on the schedule, and do something. My biggest struggle is really the guilt I feel doing things without the kids. That's a small price to pay for keeping their family intact, though - I'll have to start looking at it that way instead: that we're spending time together to give them the solid home we both want them to have, not taking anything away from them.
H said yesterday that he accepted that there would be no way to preserve his relationship with the kids in its present state if he moved out, no matter how hard he tried. That things would change and not for the better.
You are so right about there not being any guarantees. There never are - I could drop dead right in the middle of this word. Didn't though - whew! I read something recently about buddhists 'practicing dying/death' all the time, which I take to mean that they consciously maintain that awareness, that everything is temporary, that the rest of us put a lot of effort into ignoring. With that mindset, you have to be able to be grateful for this moment, instead of living in fear of the next one, in order to avoid turning into a pitiful wreck wimpering under the coffee table.
Two butterflies just flew around in front of my window - I'm regularly grateful for being able to work looking out into my backyard, at the sky, the trees and the 'wildlife'. We do have some pretty frisky squirrels... More butterflies! Lots this year - people must not be spraying as much poison around.
Well, I'm apparently rambling instead of making coffee, so I will go do that. Thanks for stopping by - I really appreciate the time you take to offer your comments.
Crawfish, hey? Now I'll be able to pass for native if I ever get down that way
You sounded great in your last post- very positive. I'm so glad you survived "the talk".
About counseling, could you wait a bit and see how things progress between the 2 of you before mentioning it to him?
Quote:
H and I need to make time together a priority - just get it on the schedule, and do something. My biggest struggle is really the guilt I feel doing things without the kids. That's a small price to pay for keeping their family intact, though - I'll have to start looking at it that way instead: that we're spending time together to give them the solid home we both want them to have, not taking anything away from them.
I have felt the same way about going out without the kids, especially when we both work full-time. Guilt is not a productive thing. Now I know that we need to go out regularly and I know that I need to be the one to suggest it.
Crawfish season has ended until November-ish. Boohoo.
I love butterflies too. I always choose flowers that they love. I hope you find lots to feel grateful for this weekend and that it gets easier to take time for you, and you and H, in addition to all the time you dedicate to the kids. They like to have the house to themselves a bit at that age anyhow.
I know about feeling like we settle. I don't think any one person can be everything to anyone and that the pressure to do so would be debilitating.
I also find it can be so relative. Just one example here: When things were horrible between us, I resented that H doesn't enjoy reading. I'd sit with a friend of mine for hours discussing books and trading them back and forth... always envious that his wife (who didn't read) had him to talk to all the time. There were times we thought we should've been together-- but that we'd kill each other. My friend was jealous and controlling with his wife. Now that things are good with H and I, surprise! I don't feel like I'm settling. I don't talk to my old friend much lately, but there are others I can discuss books with and I've found that I'm perfectly happy to discuss crawfish recipes and the Red Wings with my H.
I'm determined to get through that LL book (and the Cosmo Kama Sutra) with him though!
Just rambling my own self... need. more. coffee. now. Hope to hear from you soon!
Thanks for checking in ~ things aren't so good, unfortunately. H is again feeling that things will never get better, that the only way he can be happy is leave, that although he loves me, he doesn't think he will be able to connect with me again.
After the initial relief of deciding that he would tell me the truth (apparently expecting that it would solve everything in one fell swoop) and the actual conversation, there was a definite pulling away on his part, to which I've been reacting by pulling away in my own way. After stressing about it for a few days, this morning I finally came up with an opening sentence I was comfortable with and an hour later found myself with a H who is thinking of finding a place for August.
I'm trying to tell myself that it was good that we talked, that it is better that he share this stuff with me than keep it to himself. After our conversation he moved towards me a little bit again, at least superficially.
I think I listened pretty well, although I did go off the rails briefly a few times. I've been reading Hold me Tight and found that it kind of gave me permission to tell my H that I love him and need him, that I want our home to be the safe place in which he can 'reinvent' himself (his word), AND that the door is always open, that he can always leave.
Still, I am feeling mostly pretty awful. He was right HERE, he was back, he looked at me so lovingly and it was so great. To have him pull back SO FAR hurts, hurts, hurts.
My S in behind me in the office and if I keep typing, I am going to be sobbing - as it is, I have tears rolling down my face. Both kids sense the ongoing ebbing and flowing tension - this must be so hard for them. Anyway, I am going to sneak out of here and wash my face and then actually get some work done. I hope.
I've been checking out a lot of the archived materials and got confirmation of what I already knew - I've gone too fast, moved ahead of where my H is, etc. The question is - well, I guess the two questions are: have I totally blown it? should I TELL him that I realize he needs to go more slowly, or should I just go more slowly?
For now, I've got myself back into smile, smile, smile mode, and I've let him know pretty clearly that I hope to ML later tonight. I will not bring up OR and will just listen if he talks - I hope. I did talk too much this morning, I should have stopped the conversation when I realized where it was going, instead of pressing him for an answer. I should have come here days ago and read those older posts.
I hope I get a chance to apply my new understanding of what's going on. I thought we were much further ahead that we are. He now says again that he feels like he's 'settling' because of the kids.
I'm going to do something more useful than dwell on this - I'm sure almost anything will be more useful.
I've been working so hard at this, the thought of having to pick it all up again is almost more than I can stand.
Will your H go to MC with you? It seems that he should agree to this since he seems so unclear about what he really wants. It's not fair to you to have him changing his mind all the time.
I know it's easy for me to say.
I have found that as painful as my own situation is now with H gone, being in limbo with him here was worse.
Me/X-H: 47/48 T 19 yrs M 16 years D14 D10 ILYBINILWY: 10/07 H moved out 6/08
I think MC is a possibility, but not yet. The possibility for damage is too great - I ran across a thread in the archives with a post from Michele, explaining why joint MC when one spouse is not sure about staying isn't a good idea and what the results can be.
I feel myself working up to a full-blown panic, feeling like I have to DO SOMETHING or he is going to leave. I had a lovely few moments earlier this morning when I felt total acceptance and peace with the idea of his leaving, but like all feelings, it also passed. Wish I could stay there longer.
I've written an email to my H and really want to send it, read it to him, print it and give it to him, something. Feedback?
to my H: I've been thinking about what you said about not feeling connected and I'd like to share some of what's been going through my mind about the last few weeks.
You examined your heart and found that there is some love for me there. You looked at the life of our family and realized that it is valuable and worth preserving. So you made the very courageous decision to lay everything on the table, in the expectation that once you had done that, the connection between us would be restored. And it seemed to be, for a while, as you felt the relief that comes with honesty. However, that feeling has gradually slipped away, and you are once again struggling.
I'm very grateful for your willingness to share your experiences with me and for your honesty about your feelings yesterday. I do want to talk more about what things have been like for you and get answers to some questions, but it doesn't need to happen now. I would love to approach those conversations with curiosity, and a desire to learn more about you and perhaps some day we'll both feel safe enough to do that.
It seems to me that a big part of your feeling of disconnection is that you don't feel safe sharing your self with me, that you don't feel accepted. I'm so sorry that I've made you feel that way.
When thinking about my behaviour over the last little while, I've realized that I've been sliding back into sending the message "look how much you've hurt me" and pulling away from you both physically and emotionally. I imagine this is contributing to your sense of hopelessness that things will ever really be better. This 'poor me' thing is something I do when I feel a loss of connection with you, and it's a pattern I'm working on breaking by reaching out to you in a positive way instead.
A very specific example of something that I think is also probably contributing to how you're feeling is our conversation about a new vehicle for you. Instead of responding as a friend, I allowed anxiety to drive my response, questioning you about money, etc., with the result that you feel disrespected, as if you have to explain yourself to a parent, smothered...
You would think I would have realized this by now, but as I've mentioned, I'm a bit slow My plan is to acknowledge the anxiety, when I feel it, and then set it aside in order to give a more appropriate response.
It really would be quite an adventure, flying down and driving a car back. If that's what you decide to do, you'll do it with my support.
Guess who one of my biggest inspirations is for what I'm trying to do, to become? You. There have been many, many times in our marriage that you have just blown me away with your generousity and willingness to hear me, to stretch yourself to offer support to me. You have so much to share, so much to offer.
I don't expect any response to this email, although of course if you'd like to discuss this, or anything else, I'd be very open to doing that whenever.
Again on advice from the archives, I've picked up DR again and have found a bunch of stuff I wish I had read sooner.
I sent the email - the last few days have just been anti-DBing in action around here. Haven't heard anything back.
However, I'm going to go out soon and be gone when my H comes home and for some time after - nothing thrilling, errands and picking up my D, but not being here when he expects me to be here always catches his attention.
H is quite distant, and seems to be really mulling his decision. I've told him to take as much time as he needs and I'm being so fricken cheery it's disgusting. I've been trying to treat him as though nothing is wrong, including touching and kissing him if the spirit moves me. I'm in the 'up' part of my cycle, so have been very into sex the last couple of nights. He probably thinks it's part of my plan to lure him back - do I continue to let him think this, or somehow let him know that at this point, it doesn't have much to do with him ? I think if an opportunity comes up to do it casually, I will.
No response to my email. Slightly disappointed, but not as much as if I hadn't been reminding myself not to expect anything.
Trying to let go. He'll decide what he decides, all I can do is show him what he'll be walking away from.
It occured to me this morning that I have never acknowledged his accomplishments at work. He is in a field that tends to chew people up a bit, and he's been hanging in for over 10 years, and recently has started to real results and is doing quite well. It would be a big 180 for me to get him a present or something, and again it's something that I wish I had done before - makes me sad that I missed chances to show him that he's appreciated - and that I could carry as a priority into the future, continuing to show him that he's appreciated. It's possible that he will think it's manipulative, though, rather than something I'm adding to my list of changes I'd like to see in me. I don't acknowledge the milestones and achievements of others in ways they would probably like and I would like to learn to reach out in this way. If I try to explain all that to him, it will get much too heavy though.
I have been starting to backslide a bit in the last few months, into behaviours that I'm not pleased with, and I can't blame my H for thinking that I'm only on my 'best behaviour' when he's got one foot out the door. I'd love it if he could let me know when my behaviour is triggering things for him in a less dramatic way.
I really need someone to tell me that this is normal and that I shouldn't panic, that by going back to what was working and being really patient, I'll eventually get my guy back again. And I have to find a way to calm down, because if the panic wins, I'll keep doing things like sending that email yesterday. And buying presents, which will probably not be appreciated right now.
Okay, maybe I'll just find a time to congratulate him on how well he's doing and how far he's come, point out his persistence. Hopefully without trying to point out that he could be applying that persistence to our M. Maybe he'll make that connection on his own.
? I think if an opportunity comes up to do it casually, I will.