Well we have found that emotional middle ground again and it's certainly peacefull. W really can not handle any "heavy" disscusions (she never could) I don't think she feels safe during them, my family always loved a good debate but there certainly not her cup of tea. I will not bring any R issues up again until she does. She appears to be quite happy to go on like this for some time. Her mom gave up men and sex in her fourties after two bad relationships wonder if this is any way a factor. W starts her holidays this weekend and will be at the cabin for two weeks then I'll be there for four. Though I really enjoy her company the space will be nice. Have been refocusing on myself and the kids and will let her find her own way. After seeing so many baby steps I realize I must have started pursuing again which caused her to flee. This is certainly a long and painfull process hope I have the patience to see it through. It's certainly tough on the old self esteem never realized before how special it is to love and be loved by someone. C.