Coming to terms with sitch. Have greater understanding of issues and the fact that only my positive actions can bring a positive resonse from WAW.
Need to stay focused on me, my kids, my life and detach from W.
Fear. I fear for my kids. I fear that their lives will be forever changed. They will be okay. We are both great parents. But one + one never equals 2 in this case. 4D is asking questions. She's too young to understand. Too young to have to ask questions. Too young to have to deal.
Detachment. Has SSM allowed me to be more detached than I think I really am? I have unconditional love for my WAW but why does it feel easier to throw in the towel and move on. This is only the beginning of week 3. Have we both moved so far away from needing and wanting to provide the love that each of us needs, to be the one to provide and receive from each other?
Friendship. I am and will always be my Ws friend but what does her view of me being her friend mean? Is it a convenient friendship at this point because she is still in same house? Does she refuse to act like we are Sep because of not wanting to betray our friendship? How to build upon friendship while needing to LRT to stop the train? How to pull away yet show compassion?
Father. I will always be my kids father. I will always love and cherish them. I will be their protector and guide. I will be there for them when others aren't. I will be there to listen. I will be there to teach. I will be there to have fun.
Listen. I am learning to listen, understand and validate. I am beginning to understand eventhough she is not fully opening up. I can see in her eyes that she is scared, afraid and sorry for putting us through this. Her mind is made up. There is no stopping her. She needs to find happiness and independence. I admire the strength it took for her to do this. I feel sorrow for the suffering she endured while coming to this point. I will not stop her. She needs to stop herself. Will my actions bring her to see that she can accomplish everything she wants and needs and still have M?
Balance. Their is a greater sense of balance in the house with respect to kids and chores. It hasn't been like this in years.
Afraid. W is afraid to tell parents. I am not afraid to tell mine. Why is she afraid? Is it fear of hearing what she knows will be said? Does she know that she should do what will be said? She's tired of trying and wants to move forward. She gave it her all. She is numb to marriage and to me. Will parents understand? MIL spent years dealing and learned the hard way. MIL is tough. MIL is caring. MIL knows the importance of dealing with and resolving issues before moving on. MIL is not my best friend. MIL is terrific grandma.
Worry. W stopped worrying about me but hasn't. Says she always will because she is connected to me through the kids. I worry too. I worry for the kids. I worry for her.
Love. W loves and cares for me as a friend. There is no spark. There is no romance. I let that die and now must deal with the consequences. W says that there is no chance that these feelings will come back. I understand. I was weak and selfish when I should have been strong and giving. I took and never gave and now I can't give when it's needed the most. To hold and to comfort her, to console her and keep her warm. To be the shoulder to cry on like many times long ago. I pulled back into my cave too many times and came out only when I needed something for me. To go back and to change can only be dreamed. To do it again, can only be hoped for. For the present, I can do nothing.
Was it worth the slide back to get W to agree to go to C?
How do I show her that there is a spark while in LRT?
Will my love for my kids transcend? Will the feelings of happiness warm her heart to me?
Me 34 W 33 D 4 S 2 M 5 T 8 Bomb 6/17/08 Served 7/17/08 I hate Tuesdays! Current Thread
Another passing thought after reading some posts...
Emotional intimacy has been lacking as well as the physical part. I need to show her true love (as FG said in a post on another thread) and show her the way. Will my current 180s/stopping the same as usual behaviour be enough? I am struggling between LRT and not employing LRT, even though she has the door closed to being open towards rebuilding.
I want to show her that her needs and wants can be fulfilled by me, not just tell her, but do I just employ LRT and hope and wait?
She feels that she can't love me the way I need to be loved and can't make me happy. This is not true. How do I show her? How do I show her that I can make her happy and love her the way she needs to be loved?
Has anyone mixed kind gestures of love with LRT? I'm torn here.
Me 34 W 33 D 4 S 2 M 5 T 8 Bomb 6/17/08 Served 7/17/08 I hate Tuesdays! Current Thread
LS, some of what you are dealing with sounds exactly like what I am dealing with related to use LRT or not.
I have totally mixed feelings. I want to give my W lots of space, but then again what if all that space just lets her drift right away and just validate her choice of divorce.
Sometimes I think I don't even have the energy for this and just want to walk away for good, but that's probably just stress and emotions rearing their head into the picture.
I don't know what to tell you, I don't even know if I myself should stay dark and focus on LRT or not.
I'm contemplating on going dark/LRT for say a month and if she did not respond to it I was going to write her a letter about how I felt about the whole situation, about me overcoming my health issue, the kids etc and if she didnt respond to that I would simply face up and move on and be divorced.
I know DBng is too freaking stressful and I'm starting to feel a lot of resentment to the way she is acting towards me and the kids and that's not good.
I'm still undecided.
Maybe you should try to distance a bit and see if she starts pursuing you more or less. Keep a good record even if it's mentally so you can judge your progress.
- Scott
Original Thread Part 2 M-37 W-34 M 10 T 14 2 Ds 13
Thx Scott! I am glad that I am not the only ship without a rudder in the foggy harbor.
I feel I need to be real careful. She has moved on to be independent. She has decided not to try on our M. Yet, she comes home and engages me to talk? Balance. Tonight there is balance. I took 4d to dentist. I take and pick up kids from daycare. I cook dinner. I play with them outback. She's watching them tonight. I am GAL tonight. What awaits me when I get home? No questions from me...I am LRT. I struggle as you do. My W has walked on eggshells for too long and no it's my turn.
Will my efforts lead me to door 1 or 2?
If she values my friendship and that is gone, will that do it? Will my love for our kids do it?
Tomorrow starts week 3.
Me 34 W 33 D 4 S 2 M 5 T 8 Bomb 6/17/08 Served 7/17/08 I hate Tuesdays! Current Thread
Hi, well I think you are doing good. It is tricky, like you said and it is hard to know what to do. You want her to miss you, if possible, and not to do anything that puts pressure on her....which almost everything will.
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She left a mesage saying that her friend was coming over for lunch and wanted me to be there. I had to get the kids home anyway and felt trapped. I guess next I say no? This is tricky stuff.
Yes, that is a hard one. I would say that it would be up to you and how you saw the situation. If saying "no" would cause more problems, or you really wanted to go, then I would try to go along with the invite, but if she is playing games and/or in a "mood" and you don't see the point of you being there.....just be your own judge. You want to play a little hard to get, but you don't want to screw things up if she is trying to get closer. If you pull back, she will try to get closer, but if you push....she will pull away. I know, it's weird!
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She is still acting as if we are not S.
And this is exactly what can drive a man crazy! The moods! You never know what to expect. But, the best you can do is just try to act as though she was a "guest" in your home but you are NOT entertaining her....if you know what I mean. You go on about your life as though she is just renting a room there at your house. You are polite to her as you would be a guest, but you don't go out of your way and become over-friendly. Don't start taking her little visits to your bedroom as a sign for something positive just yet. Play it cool and stay calm. Doesn't hurt to look sexy as hell either (lol).
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One more thought...she met with my C and she said she left feeling like it was all her fault and she got nothing out of it.
That's b/c she wants a C that will justify what she is doing. I'm surprised you have a C that hasn't done just that! Most of them endorse couples spliting up these days. So apparently this C said some things she did not want to own.
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How can I get her to go back without feeling pressured?
I don't think you really can. It has to be her decision or it won't do her any good. If you try suggesting it or encouraging her, she would still say she left feeling like everything was her fault. So what would it accomplish? She has to do it. You can't control her, remember.
Glad to hear about having activities without the drinking. That kind of had me worried.
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So, I got a slick haircut yesterday and thx to sitch I am at my target weight. Gonna start treadmill etc to help maintain. Looking good and feeling better?
There you go! That's what I'm talking about!
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She only views me as her friend and father of her kids. Doesn't believe she cam love me they way I need to be loved. Doesn't want to love me the way I should be loved.
I said the very same thing about my H. Don't believe anything they say and half of what they do. Try to let it roll off your back.
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It is just so hard to stay focused since she is live in and there are two kids.
I know, but try to think of it as "opportunities" that you have to show off your changes and 180's that you might not have if you were S in different houses.
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Coming to terms with sitch. Have greater understanding of issues and the fact that only my positive actions can bring a positive resonse from WAW.
Now I like that statement! I must remember that quote. Positive actions can bring a positive response. Stands to reason that negative actions would bring the same response, doesn't it?
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I have unconditional love for my WAW but why does it feel easier to throw in the towel and move on. This is only the beginning of week 3. Have we both moved so far away from needing and wanting to provide the love that each of us needs, to be the one to provide and receive from each other?
It is all part of the stress and strain you have been under. Throwing in the towel is a natural feeling b/c it does seem easier to start over fresh than to try to fix something that seems broken. A lot of WAW's feel that it is easier to start a new R than try to fix the old one. So, if a couple can try to think of it with a "brand new" approach, it could help. Easier said than done.
You asked about how your wife views your "friendship".....I think it is b/c most WAW's do not want to hurt their H's. That is why they give them the ILYBNILWY speech. They still care for them, but just don't have the "in love" feelings they want. So, in a way, it is like the WAW is wanting your blessings and for you to tell her everything is fine and you will love her and be her best friend regardless of what she does. If my H had told me that.....I probably would have left with OM! But he didn't...so I didn't.
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W is afraid to tell parents. I am not afraid to tell mine. Why is she afraid? Is it fear of hearing what she knows will be said? Does she know that she should do what will be said? She's tired of trying and wants to move forward. She gave it her all. She is numb to marriage and to me.
I don't know her R with her parents, but it could be that she is afraid of disappointing them or them disowning her....the "sermon" they will give her....something like that. A WAW does feel like she has given the M her all and she is numb....exactly! She was emotionally detached a long time before you even knew anything was going on b/c that is the way W's are. If you did not listen when she tried to tell you she was unhappy, then she shut up about it.....and you thought everything was okay, but it wasn't.
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W says that there is no chance that these feelings will come back
All WAW's feel that way, but if they will stay and really work hard on the M, those feelings can return. Both parties must work hard at "piecing the M back together again".
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How do I show her that there is a spark while in LRT?
I can tell you how not to show it and that is by pursuing her. You can show her the spark is still there by being the most attractive man possible at all times. I always tell men here on the board to stay very clean, wear clean clothes that look good on them even at home in causal wear....and at all times wear some real good smelling cologne. Some may laugh at that, but it has its affects on women! A clean pair of jeans with a clean white T-shirt on a good smelling man.....can be yummy! (lol) Think about that the next time she pops in your bedroom at night.
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Do I get angry? Do I get upset? Does she really want me to fight for her? What does this mean? I listen to her say this to me but I cannot understand.
The rules/guides say don't. But if I do, will it get her attention?
Don't let your anger show to your W. Stay cool, not upset. No, she does not really want you to fight for her......b/c in her mind, she feels it is too late. Fighting to her, now, would feel like pursuing. You cannot understand b/c it is the mind of a WAW and a H cannot understand.....so don't try b/c it will drive you nuts. Trust the rules when they tell you "don't" If you do it anyway, the attention you get from her will not be positive attention.....it will ruin everything. Please trust the DB principles.
I know this has been a very long post. Just tried to catch up with it. I know it is so hard. It can be done. It had been done. Those that have been successful have mostly moved on and left the board, but it has been done! Don't give up.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
You said something that has me wondering though...I told w that I do not want a D but will support whatever decision she makes. Was that wrong? She knows that I want this to work and I said what I said for who knows why. I have stood my ground ever since and haven't said it since.
Ugh! I come home tonight from a friends and her friend is over. Her friend is nice. W is cold. With this many waves i'll be a good surfer in a few weeks. Going to stop posting tonight and read some theads. Thx again..
Me 34 W 33 D 4 S 2 M 5 T 8 Bomb 6/17/08 Served 7/17/08 I hate Tuesdays! Current Thread
LRT: Not pursuing (never really did as I found this site the day after bomb) Being very brief with answers to her questions. I am trying not to ask questions unless it revolves around kids. I am doing things for me and maintaining a PMA. I do not ask where she is going.
180s I am doing: Fatherly involvement with kids Started going to mass again, with kids Daily prayers with kids at dinner and bedtime Stopped drinking Doing a majority of household chores Quit smoking (on hold for now - next week?) Doing laundry
180s I need to do but feel I can't due to sitch: Small acts of caring/loving. Spending time in activity with W (shooting pool, going out for coffee etc...) Spending time just talking with W about non-R/M topics
GAL: Golf GAL with kids Getting out and socializing Reading self-help books Pray the rosary every day that I can Much more to come
Major R issues: Emotional and physical intimacy: feelings are gone and won't come back according to W She's tired, worn out Drinking (I did so she couldn't in social situations due to kids) Independence (she has it now) Happiness (her quest is beginning and where will it lead her)
Backslides: I somewhat pressured her into agreeing to see C one more time, for my benefit, not hers Agreed with W to have conversation regarding M/R
Dinner last night with family was good. I picked up the kids from daycare and started to grill and had everything ready by the time W came home. Dinner was calm in the beginning but quickly turned into a state where both of us needed to be teamplayers to get the kids to eat. Hard to do alone. Easier as a team.
She asked me how 4D was at the dentist and I said okay, no cavities. W said she tried calling me at the office and I said I probably wasn't at my desk (she left no message). She asked me about my day etc... and I only gave short answers and did not ask about her day. I told her that I had plans that night and would be leaving after I played with the kids and got them ready for bed. She said not to worry that she'll take care of getting them ready for bed. She asked about plans this weekend and I said that I will be taking the kids to the pool on Friday and then either to the fireworks, or I'll do fireworks at home. Brought up possibility of taking the camping with friends. She said she would help get things ready if I took them camping (she was really surprised that I was even considering taking 2S and 4D camping) but I said, thats alright. I can take care of that. She then asked if I had plans for Saturday and I said not as of yet. Took the kids outback and had a blast. Went out to read some posts and pick up some staples and then went to a friends.
Got home and W and her friend were going through old pictures. Friend was nice, no word from W. I nestled down for the evening and ended up having my 4D sleep in my bed. She was having another nightmare. W came in to check on kids after friend left and asked why 4D was in my bed and I told her why and left it at.
Well, this am W is still wondering why I am still helping out with kids in the am. This morning she asked why was I getting the cereal ready. I just said that I was. Being brief, not trying to be cold. Got this kids dressed and cleaned up. W started to get dinner ready for the evening. Asked if I had plans tonight. I said not as of this morning. Asked me if I was going to have a busy day and I said it should be rather productive. I had the kids say goodbye to mommy and we left.
6am battle of the showers. W and I take shower at relatively same time. Not enough hot water for two. I am ready before she is. Not fully put together but not in jammies either. Look good smell good (Chanel) feel good. If I could get to sleep earlier I would wake earlier and not have this battle. Maybe in time.
I like the questions. I do not like my answers. I feel that I should use my answers to show small acts of caring and loving but afraid I will put pressure on her. Sandi, SC, anybody...should I loosen up with my answers or keep things short and sweet for the time being and wait to loosen up.
I am beginning to see how if I pull away just a little, she tends to ask more questions. As I get more involved as a father, the more she tries to overcompensate. I am invading her long held territory. I told her on Saturday that no one can replace her role and do things better than her. I am just doing what needs to be done. To be more helpful as I wasn't in the past. She hated holding the territory for so long but yet won't let go. I won't force her to let go. I will just keep doing what I am doing. Balance in the house is beginning to come into play. I see it. Does W? We can work together to get things done while she has the independence she needs. I can step up to the plate when she needs me too. Does she see it? I am capable of running things smoothly without her. Does she see it? Does she care?
She is still tying up her time as to not think about sitch. She is drinking all of my fine wine :-( . Why won't she go buy wine from the store? She knows that this wine is not everyday drinking wine...I hope she is enjoying it though. It is good wine. I got her into drinking fine wine. We used to have fun going to east coast vineyards and tasting.
And now the day begins. Goal, reread LRT in DR. reread dos/donts from Sandi's post. Try to understand best way to approach questions from W. This is where I can use your help folks.
TIA,
LS
Me 34 W 33 D 4 S 2 M 5 T 8 Bomb 6/17/08 Served 7/17/08 I hate Tuesdays! Current Thread
Reread sections of DR as well as threads during lunch. Still confused...
To what degree, when she asks a question, do I answer? This morning I felt that I came across as cold due to my short answers. But if I talk too much, I might come across as arrogant.
Is the answer gentle pleasantness? Are my responses gentle pleasantness or cold?
W: Do you have any plans tonight? Me: No, not as of yet. W: Do you have a busy day at work today? Me: It should be somewhat productive, there's a lot going on. W: Why are you getting the kids cereal ready? Me: Because I wanted to.
Given lack of communication before sitch, how can I show her that I can be more communicative, outside of being a good listener when she wants to discuss sitch/feelings? How can I demonstrate when it seems that LRT is the technique I need to be employing? Aghhhh.
The good news is that she is inquiring about things and I don't want to screw this up.
Me 34 W 33 D 4 S 2 M 5 T 8 Bomb 6/17/08 Served 7/17/08 I hate Tuesdays! Current Thread
