>>BTW, whatdidido was right in what I meant about the WW comment and that I mean we are all sinners.<<
Do you mean biblically or in the choices people make? We may all be "sinners" at some level or other but there are HUGE differences in the levels of sinning. Just because my sin might be a chocolate martini once in awhile doesn't put me at the same level as a murderer.
Also, just because we are "all sinners" shouldn't relieve anyone of guilt. Guilt is useful. It's what reminds us what we shouldn't do. If you feel guilt you know it's wrong. Don't do it!!!! Just don't go there!!!! And if you've scr@wed up and have been there, well... don't go back! Make choices that build character rather then destroy it.
By the way, I fully support all the WAS (and former WAS) who are here really trying to get over OP and make their marriages work and keep their families together. Yes, I get impatient sometimes and tend to slap knuckles...
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
So are you saying that it makes you feel better for the "WW" to go around with a label on her sweater? Had you prefer she wear a scarlet "A"?
I understand what you are saying and don't want to make a debate about it, but I don't understand why some husbands insist on referring to their W's as their wayward wife unless it is b/c he has not truly forgiven her and wants to keep that sign up there. Perhaps it's just me that has the problem with it. And, yes I did mean it in the Biblical sense that we are all sinners and imperfect. What might be your area of strength might be my area of weakness and what may be my strength could be your weakness, but we all have that area of weakness somewhere.
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Just because my sin might be a chocolate martini once in awhile doesn't put me at the same level as a murderer.
That was a little off balance in comparison. What if I said that I committed an EA but you committed murder? Then that would kind of put your sin up higher on the ladder wouldn't it?
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Also, just because we are "all sinners" shouldn't relieve anyone of guilt. Guilt is useful. It's what reminds us what we shouldn't do.
Not being referred to as a wayward wife does not relieve us of guilt. I don't understand your reasoning of guilt being "useful". We learn from mistakes and guilt does make us feel remose and leads us to repentance, but once forgiveness is given by God, the betrayed spouse, and self, then don't you think life should go on without the constant reminder of the offense? How could there be healing if you continue to label the S as a WW?
Well, like I said, maybe that is just my view point on it. I haven't heard anyone else say anything about it. It really isn't worth debating except that there may be some newcomers that are trying to overcome their "waywardness" and are sensitive about being placed in that category. And perhaps it is b/c I have noticed more men using the "wayward" expression than the women......(again I wonder if it is a double standard), but it doesn't mean that they don't, it just means I haven't read all of them.
For the record, I know that I was a WW by having an EA. I never met the man in real life (so to speak).....it was all over the Internet. I will never forget what I've done and how much I wished I could go back in time and erase that chapter. It took a long time for me to even feel remorseful and repentant about it b/c of my H's self-righteousness.....but as I am crying even as I am writing this, I can assure you that I do. My H had a huge part in the breakdown of our M, but I was the WW, so that makes my sin much greater than his. Still, it is like pouring salt in the wound to be referred as the WW. If it is to be useful in keeping the "guilt" instilled, then I suppose it works.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
WDID, sorry for taking over your thread. How are you doing today? Do you feel you are making any headway? You know you can just come here and journal anytime, but please don't stop posting.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, I don't want to argue about this either. I have great respect for you and everyone else here.
All sins aren't equal. And definitions of sin vary (even in different religions). So the whole "sin" thing is kind of pointless. Anything can be labeled a sin and any "sin" can be justified. I don't know why that struck me. I think because I have a difficult time thinking of myself as a sinner. However bibilically I suppose I could be. I've felt jealous before. I believe that's a sin...
>>How could there be healing if you continue to label the S as a WW?<<
I think the labeling is mostly for ease in conveying information and sometimes feelings that people are struggling with on this list specifically. I don't think it's something to take personally. It's just a convenient way to write it.
Anyhow, lets get back to WDID. I hope you are okay!!!! Let us know.
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
Ok let's see if I can respond to some of the posts here-
Karen- Yes, still in that withdrawal state and still have the chemicals working on my head with the love toward OM.
Mark- Ok, I feel like I had a romantic relationship with OM so it feels real. Since it lasted longer than a year, and I was separated at the time, it feels very real. Om participated in a R with me because he knew I had been separated for 3 years and I explained I was headed toward D.
Sandi- thanks for your posts and checking in on me. I feel your support always.
Root- depending on religious beliefs, all sins are equal in the eye of the Lord. I agree what you said about guilt. My priest explained that guilt is your conscience helping you along, it helps you know the path to choose. He said having a little bit of guilt is a good thing, it is when there is no guilt that there are problems. Ye with no sin be the first to cast stones said the Lord when the prostitute came in front of him. Everyone walked away and the Lord told her she was forgiven and to sin no more...shortened version.
As for me................well...............nothing new to tell. Still try to stop thoughts of OM, still try to be kind to H, and do things together. Still in a depression. Still counting the days until Retrouvaille.
I'm reading other's situations, though, and it is very disheartening. Thank God, my H is not giving up on me and is giving me time to work through this. It would be very easy for me and him to give up....much easier and short term, we would BOTH be much happier.....I'm sooo hoping we get to that next level of love that we want to get to.......the limbo is awful, but I'm fighting it, and my H is being very patient.
I know guilt tends to stop me from doing a lot of things that would otherwise lay heavy on my conscience.
The other day I happend to hear this.... you may not "love" or have feelings for your spouse but ACT like you do. Don't push it. Just try to be natural and act as if you do and think it. Often it's the actions and thinking a certain way that will bring about the feelings.
I find if I try to think more positive I become more positive. Hope that's helpful. And yes, biochemicals seem much more potent than just trying to behave and think a certain way. But... babysteps...
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
Hey Sweetie, I know it is tough going. The depression from the withdrawal is rough. I don't know if this will help you or not for me to tell you something personal about my parents. They were married many years before my dad passed away. But, at one time they went through a bad time of it and my mom kind of lost respect for my dad b/c of their living conditions and she did not think he was trying hard enough to bring in enough income to live on. Anyway, she had always had a lot of pride....as did her mother, and my mom was and still is a very beautiful lady. However, during this bad time, she probably let herself go as much as I had ever seen her and one day my grandmother came by to see us and she never said anything, but just looked at my mom and when she saw the pain in her mother's eyes, my mom knew she had to do something to change things. Although she had no control over what my dad did or the kind of work he did at the time or how much or how little, etc., she went to work on her attitude and started keeping herself looking good all the time, just as she did in happier days. She did not feel towards my dad the way she should, but she begin to "pretend" that everything was good. She acted happy and she acted "as if" she felt the "in love" feelings and showed repect for him....even though she really did not feel it at that time. However, one day she realized that she was no longer "pretending" and acting "as if" b/c she really had those feelings in her heart. I have tried to take a lesson from that and I know my mother well enough to know it had to be true or she would not have told me that. She told me that story during the time that I was going through my ordeal with the OM and trying to decide whether to leave my H or stay. I'm afraid that I haven't put as much energy into it as my mother did, but I do believe it is possible. If you will encourage me.....I will try my best to encourage you and we both will do better at getting to where we belong. What do you say?
I feel that you have it worse in some ways b/c you had a PA and it is harder to get over than an EA.....at least I would think so. I think I got a head start at this before you, (not sure about the time frame), but then I think you are younger than me and have more vitality. So, all in all......does it all about balance out? (lol) I don't know, but I know it is hard and I don't think anyone realizes just how hard it is that has not been through it. Nor, do they really understand just how we feel.
I well remember the limbo stages and the pure agony of not knowing which way I was going to go....trying to make up my mind. I remember nearly getting caught on the computer talking to the OM and my blood pressure shooting out the top of my head. One day I would think I was going to stay in my M and the next day I would want to run away. I got to where I could not eat, and the only good thing that came from it was that I lost weight. Then after I decided to stay with my H, I got so depressed that I gained it all back! I'm not being very encouraging am I? Okay, so I'll stop talking like that.
I can tell you that when you finally do get over that longing for the OM that things do get better and life starts to spring back again. I have health problems that prevent me from being as active as I use to be or life would be a lot more springier than it is (lol). I think it is important for women that are trying to get over feelings for OM need to GAL as well as a LBS. That's not to say that she isn't to include her H, but just get a life that keeps her busy and do something she really enjoys. I think I got trapped doing things that I really didn't want to do, but felt obligated to do for a long time....and that's not a good way to live. So, try to enjoy your life the best you can.
I appreciate what you said about the scripture and all. It tells me that you are probably are a Christian. And being so, you can enjoy not feeling that guilt after cutting off OM and enjoy church work (if you like that sort of thing). I always loved it, but when I got involved with OM my church work ceased, needless to say. So, to be able to go to church and worship and also take part in various things centered around church work sure feels good again. This is who I was before OM came into my life. I know that if I left my H and went to live with OM that God would not bless my union with the OM. It would be like choosing between God and OM.......the Church and OM. So, I know who I am and what I am and how I have to live my life. I know everyone looks at it differently, but I'm like that woman in the Bible you spoke of.......I am a sinner, but I am a "saved" sinner. Being a Christian doesn't make us perfect. But, I know the One Who is perfect and that fact alone--sets me free.
Wow! Bet you didn't know I was a preacher! (lol) Well, I'm not. Just trying to say some things that I hope will help you over another little hill. Every day that you can get through without contacting the OM will be a victory day for you.
I would like to add this since I was talking about acting "as if" you had feelings that you don't necessarily have for your H at the moment.....don't be too hard on yourself. Just try to win this battle that you are going through first. Maybe others don't see it like that, but it's like I told another person about trying to diet, stop smoking and stop drinking all at the same time.....it's just too much! Take one battle at a time, okay? Get a handle on your actions and behavior and decisions where the OM is concerned and then start working on acting "as if" you have those right feelings for your H.
Hope to hear from you again, soon. Take care of yourself. That is so important.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
