It must be hard to know what to do/say for the best...and so much of this seems out of your control. Things seem so crazy right now it must be very tempting to step in and try to straighten things out.
IMO you need to formulate plan - something to underpin how you are going to tackle the next few weeks...things might seem easier if you have some guiding principles to operate to-and which has as its focus stuff you can influence - ie. you.
If you haven't come across them already search this board for SmartCookies now infamous post on the feelings of a WAW and also search out Sandi2 who has a fabulous list of do's and dont's.
Seriously, I suggest heading to the bettermen site and looking for the 8 Tools That’ll Change Your Life - and also the marriage builders site. Also, search out Arthur on this site.
Don't dwell on or look for hope in the mentions of things which seem contrary to the sitch you're in - this may be W wanting to find out what it feels like when she says these things - or for any number of unfathomable reasons.
Keep calm and make sure you set out a GAL plan - what do you like doing for you?
I wear my ring - but W does not. I tried not wearing mine but it did not feel right to me.
Best - GFI
Me: 40ish W: 40ish Together: 20 ish years Married: 10ish Years
Thx. My W is not wearing her's either. On top goals, 180s etc...I am trying to become more patient. GAL tonight as W and her friend are still here and I got the okay.
I guess the heart of my question is about detachment. I don't think I can go without wearing my ring but would doing so allow for some of the detachment to take place.
Thx again GFI. This sure is one emotional roller coaster and my two kids are lying on the tracks.
Back to the babysteps. Focus LS!
Me 34 W 33 D 4 S 2 M 5 T 8 Bomb 6/17/08 Served 7/17/08 I hate Tuesdays! Current Thread
Well, you might have to try not wearing the ring to see - in my case I found that I found myself too unsettled without it - so unsettled I lost my focus and it threw me off course. In the end I think you'll find conflicting views on this board - it works to keep it on for some people but not others - but there is no one size fits all answer. FWIW I don't think that not wearing it will achieve any better quality of detachment.
It is an emotional rollercoaster - you have to find a way of slowing things down and taking some of the drama out of the situation. Concentrating on the kids could be helpful- they help establish a routine and can bring so much joy. They might also be useful in that they can help exemplify and cheerlead some of you changes.
This is a great opportunity for you to be the best dad possible for them.
As much as my sitch has its problems it has helped me focus on my S6 and to develop my relationship with him. I know that had the bomb not come along this relationship would not have developed as it has. What I am saying is - while this could be disastrous for you it is also definitely an opportunity for you.
Let me tell you about the goals I have had that have worked for me - not rocket science but sometimes its worth ha a look at what other people have done:
Don't let W's mood dictate mine - often easier said than done but I found that I was so influenced by W's moods that it was a completely negative sitch - W was pissed off and so would I be - well there's no place to go from them but down! I realised that I felt entirely responsible for W's moods - easy trap to fall into when so much negativity seems to be heading your way - but the reality is that people should be and largely are responsible for themselves - just make sure you're squeaky clean and leave W to get on with her own moods.
Listen - really really listen - look at your W when listening - really look - turn off the tv etc - and just listen. I have always enjoyed playing foil to W but recently I have enjoyed this all the more. I used to think that W didn't listen to me - I have found in fact that she does but that her emotional triggers are different to a mine. I used to get really annoyed that while I would listen endlessly to her moan about work, she couldn't even bring herself to ask me about mine - the work I did to get money so that she could work part time. Well now I wouldn't even go there! My W more than pulls her weight with S6 and before and after school and quite honestly - I couldn't give a rats whatsit about work. Neither could she - but it gets to her to such an extent that she has to get it off her chest.
Validate - shows you're listening and you have empathy. I always thought that the stereotypical views of the male/ female style of communicating was tosh - this experience has shown me that its probably correct - and makes me wonder if I'm on the mild end of ASD! And don't forget - you'll have to be able to validate in the face of adversity! When you're least expecting it - when you want to fight back.
GAL - plan and execute a viable and sustainable GAL program. This board is full of people "working out" and when I read that I picture lots of people running on treadmills and lifting weights. In my experience folks who can keep that up are few and far between - I reckon a GAL program needs variety, people and goals. The program needs to be sustainable beyond the initial period. In my case I have been able to get to grips with a range of outdoor, physical activities which involve training and then some competition. I am also working on developing some community ideas.
Don't argue - this is easy for me- I'm not an argumentative person - and pairs up with listening and validating.
Pair up patience with consistency - these have to become your bestest friends! Always keep them close by. Your W will test you to see if you have them close by - without warning!
TBH the trickiest thing I have tackled is not pursuing - I have a tendency to want to arrange nice things, organise treats etc. At the moment I think W would see that as pursuing. But I am conflicted on this cos not many months before the bomb W said to me that she wanted "wooing again".
Ah -just remembered- I have got a lot out of the making her happy site - in particular look for info on the alpha male.
Slow down,keep smiling, listen, validate, read, enjoy your kids, co-operate and talk, GAL
And have look at this - its something I found ages ago:-
Respect the female way of connection
This is the "ROCK" acronym. "R" is for routinely making connection with her. Build that into your routine. Brush your teeth, kiss your wife, pour your coffee, pour her coffee. "O" is open your heart to her. Women are sensitive to isolation, silence, neglect and deprivation. Let her know what you're thinking and feeling. You can e-mail, text message, or leave a rose on her pillow. "C" is contact. Consciously keep contact in your mind. "K" is "keep it positive." A male's voice is designed for roaring, and they don't realize how scary roaring is for women.
Its probably tricky to follow slavishly under current circumstances but you might be able to pick out some bits to try.
Best - GFI
Me: 40ish W: 40ish Together: 20 ish years Married: 10ish Years
Thx again GFI! I don't have much time this am as I need to take the kids to mass but wanted to jot down some quick thoughts.
Need to write more on pc less on blackberry.
Feelings that W feels won't change...intimacy towards me...feelings towards my mother.
Needs are happiness and to be independent as she has been too dependent on me due to my job relos etc...needs a career not just a job. Needs a life and to find who she is.
She loves and cares for me and likes my involvement with kids...makes her happy.
She is still acting as if we are not S. Doing my laundry this am without me asking. Just did it. Had her friend being me my type of coffee yesterday am. Thanked me for letting her friend stay the day and evening at the house with her. Popped into my room last night to let me know my mom had called.
She bought too bad to stay too good to leave. Hasn't started reading but will soon.
Me 34 W 33 D 4 S 2 M 5 T 8 Bomb 6/17/08 Served 7/17/08 I hate Tuesdays! Current Thread
One more thought...she met with my C and she said she left feeling like it was all her fault and she got nothing out of it. This is a problem as my C will be reaching out to her when he gets back from vacation. One of my goals is to get her to go back so I hope in the next week or so she ha second thoughts. Has any LBS had a similar sitch? How can I get her to go back without feeling pressured?
Me 34 W 33 D 4 S 2 M 5 T 8 Bomb 6/17/08 Served 7/17/08 I hate Tuesdays! Current Thread
It is really hard to keep up when you have more than one thread. Anway, to try to give my POV, I think you are trying as hard as any person I've known...in fact, I think perhaps you've bitten off too much at one time. I do think you should remain in your bedroom and stick to your guns about that whenever she brings up the fact that it should be you in the basement instead of her. You are right, she made that choice, not you, so don't cave in to her.
You were trying so hard to give her space by helping with the kids and I think I would tell her that is why you was helping as much as you were....not that you were trying to take over. The same with the housework. Maybe you two could draw up some type of list of chores for each of you and come to some kind of compromise about the care of the kids. That is what you would do if you were living under separate roofs.
I admire you trying to stop smoking and drinking, but I wonder if doing it at the same time is a bit much. I don't know b/c I have not done either, but I know about dieting and I know that according to what others have said, you need to tackle one habit at a time. Although, if the patches are doing the trick and you can control the drinking....that would be fantastic.
I get the impression that without drinking, you don't have a clue as to have a life. That is very sad. Don't you have anything you enjoy doing? Do you have any hobbies? Do you like sports? Do you like to read or travel. Surely you have something in life besides getting drunk b/c if that is all you have, then you need counseling about that before you need counseling about your M. I am beginning to see why there was a breakdown in the R. I don't understand why she would want to throw herself into the same bad habits that you were doing just as you were trying to pull out. That makes no sense at all.
I thought I had told you one way that you can GAL is with your children and making quality time with them. However, I know you need time outside of that house. You just have to look for things to do that don't lead you into bars or other places of trouble.
I am going to post a list of a guide that divorce busters need to use. It is not to take the place of the book, but it is a quick list to remind yourself how to stay on course. I hope it will help.
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! 2. No frequent phone calls to him/her.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to him/her through conversation.....say good-bye first. 3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, etc. 4. Do not follow him/her around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention. (Remember, you are drawing him/her back with this technique.) 5. Do not encourage talk about the future. 6. Do not ask for help from family members. 7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) 8. Do not buy gifts. (Can't buy his/her love and affection.) 9. Do not schedule dates together. (That is pursuing.) 10.Do not spy on spouse. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.) 11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make him/her say it too......he/she will despise you for it.) 12.Act as if you are moving on with your life! 13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! 14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc. 15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be scarce or short on words. If he/she asks what's wrong....just say "nothing". Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. 16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! 17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse. 18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) 19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around, somebody that is attractive and fun. 20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) 21.Never lose your cool! Don't let him/her trap you into a fight. 22.Don't be overly enthusiastic b/c it will come across as fake. 23.Do not argue about how he/she feels (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) 24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give him/her space and time. 25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you 26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). 27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil) 28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. 29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write. 30.Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy 31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse 32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared. 33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. 34.Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thx Sandi! I am trying me best to adher to the rules and am actually able to do fun things without alcohol, with my friends nonetheless. I also am involving my kids with my GAL and really enjoy being an involved father. Outside of our talk yesterday, I haven't engaged in any pursuing type behavior and only a few things that I said yesterday could be construed as pursuing. It,s just weird. I left church and she called...I didn't pick up. She left a mesage saying that her friend was coming over for lunch and wanted me to be there. I had to get the kids home anyway and felt trapped. I guess next I say no? This is tricky stuff.
Also, the issue with alcohol was more that I was in social situations so she couldn't because someone had to be responsible for the kids. Now that I am being responsible she is feeling that she can drink without worry.
I'll write more later as my tee time is coming up. I will also copy my thread from the wAW forum over here tomorrow when I am on a pc.
Me 34 W 33 D 4 S 2 M 5 T 8 Bomb 6/17/08 Served 7/17/08 I hate Tuesdays! Current Thread
Good evening everyone. Golf was great today! My swing is really improving and I parred or bogeyed every hole. Of course it is a short course but who cares?
So I get back and the W goes downstairs to rest as she had the kids while I was golfing. A few minutes passed and I went down to tell her that I was leaving to get pizza since that was what a and d wanted. She asked if it was okay for her to join us and I said yes. Dinner was nice and while I was picking up getting ready to take the kids outback to play before bath time, she said her friend. Had txted her and was it okay that she goes out. Not wanting to gay into a r talk I just said sure. I wanted to tell her again, yes I have before, that she doesn't need to ask just to let me know due to kids. It would be less confusing...before she left she did come outback to say goodbye but the kids and I were having too good of a time to notice right away.
So, I got a slick haircut yesterday and thx to sitch I am at my target weight. Gonna start treadmill etc to help maintain. Looking good and feeling better?
Oh, she asked me before I left to go golfing if I wanted a beer. Uh no! Her and her friend were having drinks...
Sandi, thx for the list. I had seen it in another post but could not remember where. Thx for putting it here! I must have read it several times waiting to tee off and I guess I am doing not too bad. I got in trouble with 1 and 3 during the talk yesterday but it revolved around the kids. I'll be stronger next time. I also need to get Bette with 26 and 31. Something to work on this week.
Time to put the kids to bed. I guess the question of the night is do I iron her clothes? I did mine and finished putting mine and the kids laundry that she did earlier. This would be a 180 for me and I did it last week. Not sure if it is pursuing or begging type actions or a kind gesture, according to her POV. Thoughts?
Me 34 W 33 D 4 S 2 M 5 T 8 Bomb 6/17/08 Served 7/17/08 I hate Tuesdays! Current Thread
Just had another talk with W after she got back. Abe said thx ang of course that led to more talk. I tried to keep focus off of r with no luck but she did agree to go back to c one more time. What I did learn and it is sinking in... She only views me as her friend and father of her kids. Doesn't believe she cam love me they way I need to be loved. Doesn't want to love me the way I should be loved.
Going to continue my 180s and GAL and PMA. Going to focus on detaching from W this week. She is my friend and the mother of me kids. Focus on LRT and on Sandi's list.
It is just so hard to stay focused since she is live in and there are two kids.
I feel that I slid back but I did get her to agree to see c one more time.
Oh how to get the W to see that it, possible.
Me 34 W 33 D 4 S 2 M 5 T 8 Bomb 6/17/08 Served 7/17/08 I hate Tuesdays! Current Thread
