Mark, what you say is true....you all have some good ways to cut my fantasy apart and that is helpful. Either way, you are right. The fantasy has to stop.
What would be helpful is for YOU to cut the fantasy apart in writing on here. You need to start writing the truth instead of just nodding at us.
Seriously, that junk he was throwing at you is JUST PROMISES...I want to treat you like a queen etc..its just BS...
Pretend you had a 14 year old daughter and some 20 year old guy was handing her all this baloney...what would you tell your hypothetical daughter?
Should i guess? You would likley tell her he's telling her what she wants to hear so she will trust him, and that he is not demonstrating maturity at all in pursuing her in the first place.
Is that far off from the mark?
Think about this man as a sexual predator after an imaginary daughter you have and WRITE what you think of him on here.
July 18th is my Retrouvaille weekend start date. You are right, Sara, it can't come soon enough. I'm scared a bit, though.
Mark, I like listening and nodding. Then I don't have to do anything. I'm just kidding. I'll work at cutting the fantasy apart in writing. I'm just not there yet. I'm trying to get him out of my head a little more first....distance and time first.... Right now my fantasy is real in my head. No matter what everyone says, because it is too fresh, I think OM and I would have been happy in the most important way. The unhappiness that would come with OM would be more of the financial problems, security, loss of my son's time, .....ok, here we go...let me keep listing here what it is would go wrong........OM's temper and can be mean when angry (but of course right now I think we could work through that), living arrangements (he's ready to move in together and get married and I wouldn't be ready for that for a while)-would cause our next batch of arguments, his friends and how they may influence him negatively, I'm good for him but is he good for me?, his jealousy,......well, it's a start
Right now my fantasy is real in my head. No matter what everyone says, because it is too fresh, I think OM and I would have been happy in the most important way. The unhappiness that would come with OM would be more of the financial problems, security, loss of my son's time, .....ok, here we go...let me keep listing here what it is would go wrong........OM's temper and can be mean when angry (but of course right now I think we could work through that), living arrangements (he's ready to move in together and get married and I wouldn't be ready for that for a while)-would cause our next batch of arguments, his friends and how they may influence him negatively, I'm good for him but is he good for me?, his jealousy,......well, it's a start
I'm so happy for you about Retrouvaille. I've heard so many good things about it, and hopefully that will be as good for you!!! I do think even though you think that you would have been happy with OM you listed off half a dozen reasons why your R would have had problems, so that makes me think you are still kind of in that fantasy chemical-state as I guess you realize. If you reread your last post in a few days or week or something, maybe that will hit you more like it did me. Karen
What should I do? Stay quiet or what? Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill?
WDID, I would love to have a chance to go to Retro, unfortunately it no longer exists in my state and I couldn't afford to go back and forth to the other side of the country to attend the post meetings.
Keep listing the things that could go wrong with with the OM (or is he the exbf? - would it help to refer to him as an ex of some sort or something other than OM?).
** Purple
As soon as you trust yourself you will know how to live. Goethe
OK, this for starters is a logical impossiblity and blatant romanticizing...if it is in your head, it isn't real. What makes things real is that they actually take up time and space. If its just in your head, it is pure fantasy. You haven't had a romantic relationship with him, just an affair, so its just a fantasy and just in your head...quite unreal
Originally Posted By: whatdidido
No matter what everyone says, because it is too fresh
You can ignore our advice, that's expected during withdrawal...but don't try to argue the case logically, it isn't going to make any sense.
Originally Posted By: whatdidido
I think OM and I would have been happy in the most important way.
You have no idea. If anything his willingness to participate in an affair indicates he is not mature enough to maintain a successful long term relationship..much less make anyone happy in "the most important way". Sorry wdid, but any attempt at reasoning here isn't going to go far...you can read this thread in a year from now and see then how senseless this all sounds.
Originally Posted By: whatdidido
The unhappiness that would come with OM would be more of the financial problems, security, loss of my son's time
He's not mature enough to handle things well when they go bad, tha'ts the problem, its not finances or security, its the lack of maturity someone like this possesses to manage these challenges. Many couples face financial challenges..the successful ones have the maturity to survive them. If he is willing to trash another private household, he isn't mature enough to handle financial pressures that come with a long term relationship.
Originally Posted By: whatdidido
ok, here we go...let me keep listing here what it is would go wrong........
Just try to be honest with yourself, listen to your head, not your injured and exhausted heart, she is way too harried right now to be of much help in discerning the truth.
Originally Posted By: whatdidido
OM's temper and can be mean when angry (but of course right now I think we could work through that), living arrangements (he's ready to move in together and get married and I wouldn't be ready for that for a while)-would cause our next batch of arguments, his friends and how they may influence him negatively, I'm good for him but is he good for me?, his jealousy,......well, it's a start
Jealousy? Man, he has a nerve getting jealous...wow, of all the ..anyways....
The subject matter won't make a difference, you would argue, and not work your way through it because he isn't mature enough yet to get there.
Finances and other problems will always be there, the difference isn't money or your home, its the maturity to handle life's challenges.
Your husband's maturity is to work with you and move on, the OM's maturity is to lie and hide his problems and concoct fantasies to continue a destructive road to oblivion.
He just isn't ready. He SAYS he's rady, he SAYS he wants all this, but he doens't have the maturity to handle the hard times.
Successful couples have hard times, but successful couples have the maturity to work thorugh them.
I believe a woman can have an affair of the heart by her fantasizing about a man--and the OM never know--and her H never know....only herself, and yet that fantasy can come between her and her H b/c she has allowed the fantasy to become real enough that her H cannot live up the the image of the OM in her fantasy. She finds that b/c of the fantasy, she is not as attracted to her H, and it just starts going down that spiral staircase.
Perhaps some men have just as much problem with this as women do....I don't know. I have read a couple of books that suggested that that was one of the differences between the sexes and their thought process. At any rate, to tell a woman that has fantasized for a long period of time that she just needs to stay busy and get her mind on other things, is kind of like telling a person who has smoked three packs a day for the past 25 years to just lay them down and don't smoke anymore. I agree that we have to "work" at not allowing ourselves to fantasize about OP (and have given the same advice), however, my weakest point is at bedtime when I am trying to drift off to sleep. It is really hard to control your mind at that point.
All of us women who have admitted to having this problem, and those who I know do but they won't admit it, we need encouragement and a lot of it. If a person has never had this problem then of course they can't possibly understand. I assure you it has been one of the hardest things to overcome in my life. I don't smoke or drink, so I can't say about that.....but I think the mind is harder to walk away from that a drink or a smoke.
I ask that any of you that reads this thread will try to understand that it is something that we would like to be able to just turn off in our minds b/c it would give us great relief if we could, but it is not that easy and esecially if you have had a real affair with another person. As I told in a post before, the OM I had an EA with could not even live up to my fantasy of him. That is when I begin to realize that I was in trouble and that I was seeing him through rose colored glasses.
I know it is hard to have compassion and understanding for women that have had an EA or a PA and some people want to make us go around wearing a scarlet A (or a WW)on our sweaters, but it isn't pleasant for us either. I am not refering to any that have posted thus far, but perhaps for some that are just reading and not saying anything. I still think that our society has a double standard when it comes to affairs.
BTW, whatdidido was right in what I meant about the WW comment and that I mean we are all sinners. None of us are perfect, but I would not go around refering to my H as my SH (sinful husband) even though he is as much a sinner as myself...just in different ways. Like I said, I just think it not a healthy logo to place on your wife if you are trying to live under the same roof.....even if she hasn't made it back in her heart 100%. And no, it was not one particular poster that caused me to say that. It has been my reading so many over a period of time here on the board that keep referring to their W's in that term. I have read where the W had returned 100% to the M and the H still would refer to her as his WW in his post. As I said, it is just sensitive to me and I bet it would be those wives also. If the H keeps calling her that and thinking of her as a WW, is that healthy for him? I don't think so. And, I just bet it comes out in his attitude or behavior toward her (just my guess). Makes one wonder if they have really been forgiven if they have been labled as a WW for the rest of their lives. I have rather be referred to as "my almost WAW" as "my WW". But, that's JMHO and I am just venting on whatdidido's thread.
Hang in there sweetie and don't give up. If I can do it, you can too. We will help each other. Just know that I understand what it is like for you and it isn't easy what you are putting yourself through. However, I do believe staying with your H is the right choice.
Take care of yourself.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, no one here is going to isolate you for affairs. This forum is for reinforcing MWD's principles and to support visitors through that program.
your point about fantasizing interfering with a loving relationship wtih your spouse is spot on. Successful couples share their fantasies with their spouse, they don't shut them out of them.
If you are fantasizing about firemen, and you share that with your spouse, maybe he can dress up like a fireman for example, I dunno.
But shutting your spouse OUT of your thoughts and dreams is a road to marital oblivion. Open up, share, trust, forgive, and love your spouse so they CAN love you back. No one can effectively love a brick wall.
Mark, I disagree with you 100%. If I told my H that I was fantasizing about the OM that I had an EA with....it would not make him happy one little bit. Most of men's sexual fantasies are about some picture of a sexy woman or someone in "general", but with women, we are more specific in "who" we fantasize about. I understand what you are saying about sharing fantasies and if you have a fantasy about being kidnapped by a pirate and your H dresses up like one and plays it out.....but this is NOT what I'm talking about. I am talking about a man I thought I was in love with and I fantasize about him making love to me. Now do you think if I told my H that, he would find that exciting and want to play the role of the OM? I don't think so! He would be furious and then storm into the other room and maybe out of the house b/c I am suppose to be over all of this.
I learned by listening to the tapes of the Secrets of a Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch that there are some fantasies that can be shared and some that can't. For an example, if my H had a fantasy about screwing my sister, I would not find that very helpful in turning me on. If he knew that I was fantasizing about having sex with his brother, I doubt he would like it very much. But, if we shared a fantasy about the postman coming in to make a special delivery.....that would be different b/c it is more of a role play and doesn't get "personal". Do you see the difference? I would not dream of hurting him more than I already have by telling him that my mind drifts off about the OM making love to me instead having sex with my H. That kind of "sharing" is harmful in my opinion. I believe all humans are capable of having those thoughts and have to learn to have control over it, but I rather not know who my H is fantasizing about having sex with......if it is a real person or even a movie star, b/c that is too personal....it is too "real". In fact, I read of a famous Hollywood couple that broke up b/c she made a comment about a leading man (who happen to be their friend at the time) playing in a part. The H got jealous and one thing led to another until they got divorced.
Anyway, I can see where you are coming from. But I know my H and he could not take the idea that I was fantasizing about any other "real" man....especially the OM that I had an EA with.
We always trusted each other and shared with each other except for that. I know it is best to stay quiet about it and work it out by myself....I have to b/c my H would be unbearable to live with. It is getting much better and that is what I want to offer encouragement to other W's that has had this same problem when involved in an affair. You have to learn not to do anything to "feed" the fantasy. I don't have to tell you what that is....everyone has their own thing that starts it to rolling. I usually have to wait until I am almost alsleep on my feet so that I will not lay in bed and "think", but fall asleep right away.
Anyway, that is my POV, for whatever it is worth. Hope it may have helped somebody.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
ok sandi, I am not suggesting you share your fantasies about OM with your husband.
I suggest that fantasies be sharable or not have them. Fantasies are controllable and directable, despite what some have suggested.
So no, i am not suggesting you share infidelity fantasies with OM, I am suggesting you share fantasies with your H so you don't have affairs in the first place. Fantasies is a key ingredient in affairs is it not? I am suggesting that if a person fantasises with their spouse they will be less likley to seek the fantasy elsewhere in the arms of another person.
Okay, we are on the same page. It's just a lot easier said than done....in my case....b/c that is my weakness. It always has been and therefore was the weak link in my MR. So, it is a very hard habit to break, but I'm working hard at it.
When a H and W don't have that intimate R that is needed....then it is very easy for those fantasies to enter the brain. When it has been 22 years since your H slept in the same bed with you and 12 years since having sex....yes, it is hard to keep those fantasies from coming. I hope I don't regret telling that. I don't know how much of my story you know, but it is too long to get into now. Anyway, like I said, I am trying hard.
But, the point was that the withdrawal from the OM is hard and I personally think that the fantasizing is part of it. I know that all the WAW's that have the courage to come here and tell their story needs support and encouragement to keep trying to work at their M. So many have come and posted once or twice and then left. So, I hope any and all of the men that read this will try to show some help for our friend.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
