Does a WAW want you to fight for them?

[jandn]

Well at least you threw it out that about the anniversary. I think you shouldnt have disclosed your alternative plan though if you did which it sounds like. If she did reconsider then you should have revealed it cause now she is thinking "well I really dont want to go now cause will just let him be with his friends, he has shown me that he has choosen his friends over me". Just my two cents.

Was going to put " You never know, she might be thinking and thinking about it until then and might agree to go." until I reread what I think you did. Never know though.

Anyways, somebody please help me on how to respond to my W after this weekend, then not so great phone conversation lastnight, then a text today.

[cz946]

OK, I'm having a bad day. As I said tomorrow is anniversary. Its really bothering me that I will not see her tomorrow except for a few minutes to pick up my d. Didn't hear from her at all yesterday. She called me this morning to ask if we missed an appointment for my d latch key. Its tonight, she ask me to go without her, cause she going to baseball game. At first, I said I think you should go too, but then thought to myself that I am being selfish cause I just want to see her. So I told her, I will go, and she should go to the game and have fun. Told her she always handled this stuff in the past, and I need to step up.
She seemed pleased.Then we ended the call.

I then got weak, and sent her an email to see if she wanted lunch. No reply yet. I need to become stronger at the LRT.

I can tell if I don't contact her for a day or two she starts contacting me. My sister who was a WAW, no divorced keeps telling me that I have to let her miss me.

[sandi2]

Hi, I am going to try to respond to some things you have said or done and I hope you will be open minded about this. I am speaking as a woman who almost wallked away from 41 years of M.

Besides I made a movie of her pictures with family and friends and want to give it to her when our friends are there to watch as well.

It's too late now since you've already done that, but I would have told you not to do it! Presure, presure, presure! Guilt trip, guilt trip, guilt trip. Of couse she acted happy in front of all your friends. How did you think she would respond? You really put her in a tight. Yes, she texted you and told you she like the video, but then after you would not leave it alone, she told you that she wished you had given it to her in private! Can you not understand at all where she is coming from?

think she brings me in to a certain point and then pushes back. I guess it does give me false hope, maybe she is trying to avoid that. I am trying to show her that I have learned so much over the last several months and that I can be the person she needs me to be.

Am I to pushy, How should I handle the Bday dinner and time at the bar?

Yes! You are waaaaay too pushy! Have you not read the DR book at all? You sent her flowers at the office and she did not like that one bit and told you. Now you are trying to celebrate her birthday as though the two of you are still together. Get this and get it straight.......SHE DOES NOT WANT TO BE WITH YOU RIGHT NOW! Okay? Everything you are doing is pushing her farther away man. You waited too late to try to do everything she wanted all those years. You screwed up......face it!

She tells me to stop searching for and excuse, it just happened and we are both to blame. But on the other hand, she tells me she is depressed and crys every night. She shows very little emotion around me. I just want to tell her lets give another shot, we can make it work. Her response is its to late, and I fell out of love with you

That is exactly how she is feeling right now. She feels like she did all the work in the M and now anything you do is too late.....get it?

You asked if WAW's want their H's to fight for them? Not in the sene you are thinking....No they don't. To be blunt (and I know I am hitting you with a 2x4 here, but you aren't listening to what people are trying to tell you) but the WAW is sick of her H and doesn't want to be around him and doesn't want to be reminded of anything about their R now or in the past. They don't want to hear from them or be romanced. They feel that all of that is over and it is too late. Yes, they are much a basket case of nerves and emotions b/c it is something they don't just wake up one morning and decide to leave a terrible M. They think about it for a long time. It is devasting to them and that is why you often see differnt emotions show in them.

Do you really want to fight for your WAW? Are you serious abou it and listen to us? If you are, then you will use the DB principles....that is fighting for your M! That is the fight of your life, but I don't think you are getting it and you need to real fast if you want a second chance. She sounds like a classy lady that would not embarrase you in front of friends, etc. However, look how you put pressure on her and took advantage of her at the party.....even after the big display of "look at what I did for you" video.

Early during the night, I gave the w a hug.

Why? She is separated from you man. She is talking divorce! And here you go in front of everyone (again taking advantage of the situation b/c you know she won't cause a scene) and try to hug her. Not appropriate at all.

She responded with you can't be hanging on me like that. I said no problem I understand.

She tried to tell you, but did you listen? You thought you handled the rejection well......

Being sure to not look disappointed and all.

You didn't b/c you would not leave it alone. Here you go again, putting more pressure on her in front of friends.....

Later that night I asked her to dance and she said yes. So we slow danced to a song, and danced to a few others.

So, you probably thought the entire time you were really making progress and she was thinking, "How can I get this man to see what he is doing is hopeless?" I can grant you that she was miserable the entire time you were dancing those slow dances. She may have smiled and put up a good appearance, since you had her in a bind, but I bet she was not a happy camper.

We never talked about the relationship or anything. We just had a good time.

Were you expecting for her to talk about the MR while you two were out on the dance floor? A birthday party would hardly be the time and place for a R talk. Then you go and say that "we had a good time"......get your eyes open man.

She left about a half hour before me.

Does that tell you anything? Do you see a message at all in that action? No, you probably don't! If you had been the one DBing, you would have left the party a half hour before her!

On my way home I was going to send her a txt thanking her for a wonderful night, but I didn't.

Thank God!

So today, I am taking her to dinner to give her the present for our daughter. It will be the three of us.

And, why do you have to have the wife along to give the D a gift? That is not detaching. You are still finding ways to try to hang on or make her be with you. This is only another trap to get her to spend time with you. And so are the games......

She called about an hour after her last txt above to ask what time we are going and what time my softball games are?. I said I don't care what ever works best for her, and I am skipping the games to celebrate your bday. That is something I never would have done in the past. But I am trying to show her that she is my priority, and that I am changing.

I'm sorry for being so rough on you, but you are so blind about all of this. You are not doing it the right way. You need to detach....first. That has to be the first step and you are not doing it.

Sunday meet the w at her work to get a book shelf. The plan was to meet at her work and get the shelf and go to dinner.

Whose plan? Yours, I'm sure. Another trap.

We spent a couple hours at her work, while she did some odds and ins. Just had small talk about her job and our daughter.

After two hours....that should have been a strong enough hint to get the heck out of Dodge! Why do you keep pushing?

She ask if we could go to dinner later in the week, because she was not hungry.

She is tring to be nice and tell you that she isn't interested, but you aren't getting it.

i said no problem. She was nice but a little guarded I could tell.

Well, it was about time.

The night before was wonderful, but I could sense she was worried about the false hope thing. After all she is totally addiment about the divorce.

The night before had been wonderful for you! She could see how you took it too far and of course she thinks you are getting your hopes up.

After all she is totally addiment about the divorce.

Thursday is our Aniversary, I ask if she wanted to meet for dinner with no strings attached. She said she is busy, has to get her hair done.

Oh man! That is the oldest excuse in the world for not going out with anyone. She is sending the message so loud it should burst your ear drums. And your part about the "no strings attached"......yeah, right.

I can tell if I don't contact her for a day or two she starts contacting me. My sister who was a WAW, no divorced keeps telling me that I have to let her miss me.

So.....will you listen? Your wife had not been given a chance to miss you. You need to completely do some serious 180's and detach like crazy. I don't think you've even read the book....it doesn't sound like it. Maybe you better go back and do it again.

Everyone else has been nice and sweet and I come along and hit you over the head. I realize that. You want a WAW's opinion? You've gotten it. If you want to know what works.......I can tell you that what you are doing is NOT working! And, I can tell you that you better start DBing your a$$ off or kiss her good-bye. You have gone about all of this the wrong way. You need to get your eyes open and open your ears!!

If you don't like what I've said....that is fine, but I have told you the truth. That's what you asked for. Or at least I thought you wanted to hear from WAW's.

I sincerely hope you will re-read the book and read what other WAW's have posted. Read other forums and other people's stories.

Do what works. Stop going down cheesless tunnels.

Sandi

[cz946]

Hi Sandi,
Thank you so much for the information. This exactly what I am looking for on this site. I will reread the DR book today.
I will do the 180 the correct way now. Thank you for your prespective on my w actions. You make it very clear.

Today in our Aniversary. I will not contact her. I will see her later to pick up my daughter, but I will leave it at that, and make sure I end the conversation and leave very quickly. Next week I am going on vacation with my daughter for the week. I will make sure her phone calls to check on our daughter are just that, and I will end the call first.

You are right. I find my self trying the DB thing, but have not done a very good job. I need to be stronger.

Thanks you so much for your help........

[Bridgestone]

cz946

Sandi has really laid it on the table for you. Take the wisdom from her post & theDB books and do your best.

You have much support here for talking through your ideas for 180, going dark, etc out first, then implementing them with WAW later.


Your plans for what will be a hard emotional day for you sound good.

Patience & baby steps.

Peace.

[sandi2]

I'm really glad that you responded. I hit you so hard that I was afraid you would not take it very well, but if that was my only shot, I wanted to make it count. I am not as cold hearted as I may have sounded, really, and I want to help any way that I can. Your anniversary will be a tough day if you focus on "that", so try to stay busy focusing on your D. (BTW, how old is she?) Just for the record, your W may be dreading the anniversary, concernced that you may want to do something "special" so I wouldn't be surpirsed if she did not try to have some type of prearranged plans made to avoid that. When you go to get the D, just try to be upbeat and polite as best you can. Don't ignore your W, like some men do by not looking them in their eyes,etc. Look at her and smile, but don't try to hug her or make any moves that would cause her to think you were trying for a kiss or anything like that. If she brings up the anniversary (which I doubt she will), but if she asks if you realize what date it is, be honest and just say "yes" I do. But, don't go off into saying anything else. If she wants to, that is fine, and just validate whatever she says. You, however, do not need to say anything about it. do not get into a R talk. Like I said, I think she will head any of that off if she is afraid you will do that. Just stay sweet but strong. In fact, why not make that your new motto.....sweet but strong!

Some LBH's have said that they get a non-romantic card to give their WAW's, but if people are S, I don't think a celebration of the wedding anniversary is approbriate. She is probably dreading the day, afraid of what you may get her or want from her, so it will be a relief when she discovers that you haven't done anything at all. And, it will get her attention....and that will be a plus for you. At first, she will be relieved....and that will cause her to relax...and that is good. Then when you don't call from the vacation, and wait for her to call....that will be good. When you say good-bye first.....that will be really good, and she will probably be surprised and think it is b/c you and D are busy with fun, etc. So, you will have to continue to do that with phone calls after you return. Tell yourself that each time you are able to be sweet but strong you have gained a tiny bit more ground. However, every time you backslide, you lose ground. That will give you determination to stay with it.

This is a perfectly good time to start the real detachment process while you are on vacation. I know that is the hardest thing for a LBS. You see, the WAW has already detached herself emotionally before she ever left the M. So, then you, the LBS, has the shock of her leaving, then beg her to stay and do all the wrong things to try to get her to come home and then finally realize that you have to detach.....and discover it is hard as nails to do it. Just keep looking at the finished picture of all of you back together again and it will give you the strength to do it. Stay busy....that is important. When you are tempted to make contact....come talk to us here on the board or just journal your thoughts down. When you need to ask questions, please do so before you leap into a situation you are not sure about.

Two words you will get sick of hearing is "time and patent" b/c she needs the time and you need the patient......and lots of it. Any LBS can tell you it takes lots of time and even more patient. But, in the end, it will be worth it. Please be realistic and understand that we aren't talking about a few weeks here. But if you know she is worth it.....you can wait it out and you can DB like the book instructs. You are only human and you will make mistakes from time to time, but you'll get better as you go alone.

I answered your first question in my post last time about "do WAW'S what their H's to fight for them", but I don't think I answered the last two questions that you asked on your first post, so please allow me to do the best I can to do that now.

Do you walk away just show your H what they lost hoping they will see and fight to get you back?

Quite honestly, the typical WAW does not walk away feeling that way. She has given up all hope of having the MR that she had always wanted. She feels that she has tried her best, and that her H will never change. She does not want to hurt her H, but at the same time, she does not feel in love with him any longer. It is her great over-whelming sadness and the need for freedom to get out of that environment that makes her walk away. B/c of her history with him and b/c she does care about him and the life and love they once shared, she will be emotional at times....and that is what confuses the LBH, b/c he sees it as meaning something else. He thinks she is sorry for leaving, but that is not it at all.

Are there sign I should be looking for from my WAW?

Not in the sense that I think you meant this question since you were talking about whether she was wanting you to fight for her or not. If you do the DB principles and pull back like she needs you to do now....and you work on you making any and all changes in self improvement, etc. like the book says....then down the road when she is convinced that you may be serious about these changes and that they are for life and not just a trick to get her to go back home.....you will see her start to warm toward you. In fact, she may even become more friendly and have a sene of being relaxed around you long before she is ready to make that final move......b/c of your changes. If you see those signs....it is good....very good. It's funny how we are....but when the LBS pulls back, the WAW moves in closer. But, give it some time before you actually see this happen. Remember, she will be a little leary at first....wondering what's up. BTW, you never, never tell her that is what you are doing!! You never tell her about the DR book or this board or any of that. Those are your tools. That is your game plan....not for her to know about.

As I said in my last post, I see your wife as being a classy lady. I doubt she would be rude or vulgar to you in front of others and I'm sure she does not want to get into arguments with you at all. She probably "endures" what you have done since the S simply b/c she is a lady of this quality. If I am wrong, you can tell me. But that is not to misunderstand her poise and classiness as some sign of "acceptance" of your actions.

So, have a good time with the daughter on your vacation. Maybe after D has gone to bed, you can freshen up on the DR book. You probably were in so much pain when you read it the first time that you did not process it well. So, give it another go.

I have seen men that started out just like you and finally "got it" and started doing the DB the right way and it paid off. So, don't give up. The book doesn't come with a promise that your wife will return home again, but I can almost promise you she won't if you don't go by the book.

At first, she will enjoy her freedom and the fact that you have back off and are leaving her in peace. But, I believe that when she starts to see some real changes, it will get her attention, and the attraction for you will be renewed and her desire will start to stir......and then it is only an amount of time before she will be wanting to try again. If you don't think you can be the man you were when she married you....then become the man she can fall in love with afresh. Okay? If a man wants a woman badly enough....he can do it.

Take care,
Sandi

[TwinDad]

CZ946,

You are getting some excellent advice from Sandi....listen carefully.

I have been in a similar situtation. The main piece of advice I can give you is realize that you are not driving the car. Let your W drive the car. The better you are at letting her drive the R the quicker this will run its course. Don't give her R directions or even talk about where you are going. If she talks about it then validate and listen. I wouldn't initiate any unnecessary converations (text, or otherwise) but I would typically respond to hers in a friendly manner (sometimes waiting, sometimes immediately). I basically took things at her pace, if she was quick to respond to a text then I would be.....else I would wait.

I have so far been very fortunate in that the sep only lasted about 2-3 weeks, but this can take several months. A lot of it has to do with how determined she is and how well you ride along.

It sounds like you have a pretty good grip on what to do. Just don't even think about the R and don't bring it up

Also don't believe everything she says about her determination to get a D. My W told me several times that she made up her mind and it was over. But when I would go to leave her eyes would say something else. Just keep your cool.

One of the biggest keys is evaluate your technique/approach all the time. If you get a negative feedback then don't do that anymore. Ie. if going dark is your approach then don't stick to it if your W is becoming hostile about it. I personnally think people try to go dark way to early (I guess because it sounds cool...I don't know) and end up damaging the friendship they still share with their W. I tried the dark approach for two nights and did not like the result...I switched to best friend and was back living in her house in 3 weeks and we just put an offer on a house together less than 2 months after "she had made up her mind and she was just going to file for divorce"

One other thing that might help prep you for this vacation with your D. I took my 2 yr old twins on a vacation the first week of the sep. I had read DR right before and I was determined to apply some of those principals to work. I went a little dim and it worked a bit. I noticed that she contacted me more and more as the week went on...about silly stuff like she was going to get her hair done, etc. I had mentally prepped myself for the trip. I was prepared to take an extra long time to get things done (you try to drag a pair of 2 year olds away from the swimming pool....lol), I was prepared for missing my W. I wasn't prepared for how much I would miss sharing the experiences with kids were having with the one person who shared the same love for them as I did. We still had a great time, but that sharing was a huge part that I didn't anticipate.....memories that we wouldn't be able to sit back and laugh about together.

Best wishes

[Neilh23]

CZ...listen to these people. TRUST ME! all of them have given me great advice over the last couple of weeks/days. follow it. easier to say, i know. but do it.

[Bridgestone]

Hey CZ,
I'm sure getting through the anniversary day was hard. I see you have not posted for a a few days. How are you doing today?

Please keep us updated, we're here to listen & support

Peace

[Purple]

Sandi Rocks!!

I'm a WAW too (I think) and her post from a couple of posts ago was awesome!