another date set today!

[jandn]

W is coming over, dont know why really. I think she thinks there is something I really want to tell her but all I wanted to do was show up and leave today. Funny how she went home sick and is able to come over and everything else. C said she wants to talk to W to get a better feel on how to work on me. Gave me a few pointers and her POV. Dont have much time, pray that W is in a good mood. Well better go, will update later.

[jandn]

Yes! bout 2 get stood up by own W! says the time i told her was 2 late and thats 5 mins from now. always has been late 4 eveything. 1 thing i do

[jandn]

Dont miss is what I was going to say and then W showed up. Man oh man I DB my butt off and got some good feedback!

W starts off what I want to talk about. Couldnt think of anything right off bat but we got to some small talk, kid talk, D talk, all good and went very well. W wanted brownies so I made them for her.

Lil while into it, W starts tearing up! I jumped right on that and comforted her. I never teared up or got mad or anything during the whole time. Looked at her, asked what it was, got her kleenexes and W let it flow. Said how she didnt like the fact of spliting up the family cause so hard on the kids, failure was mentioned, how since she has been in her new place it really is hitting her, how she has been having all these emotions.

I didnt beg, plead, anything, just validated! Although C said W might want me to be chasing her and might test it and try that approach. But it was ok but got reassurance why W wants to follow through. I just let her talk and talk and talk.

W got to the point of why she is following through. Said I just couldnt forgive you for the ex parte and keeping the kids from me from Mon night to Fri morn. Now listen to this. Walking W out after she gives me hug. Had been thinking about when I should say something about "wish you could forgive me". Well she hugs me and says I need more money for July. Say well I am pretty short, I will see what I can do. Not very happy with my answer so she steps out door, and I say that "wish you could forgive me".

W's reply is "I have, but there are somethings you just dont forgot" Then "I can come out this weekend for a couple of hours so we can go through some stuff". At first I sounded like a couple of hours to hang out. But I just said be careful and let her leave.

Did have some sex talk about the other day. She asked if I regretted it, I said no. I let her look at my DivorceCare book and recommended she go, cause she is feeling like I am. I showed it to her cause I said "is this what you are feeling?" Was a ball of entangled emotions and she said yes it is and looked through the whole book, my notes and all. Said "well on these losses you never mention anything about me, just the kids and money" I countered with "thats what the whole program is about is being torn apart from you".

There is a part on sexuality so had to answer questions about that. "Really hope you havent been with anyone cause you were with me the other day" and something else about having a GF. I said "there is only one person Im trying to be with and there wont be anyone for a long time" Also slipped and said, what you got a BF? That was the only time I think I should have shout my mouth.

All in all went pretty good, but W still hopes we can get this all settled and move on. "You werent really happy while I was living here" This is where I messed up cause I dont know why. I said "you dont know how you are until you look back on it" W says "Dont you think you will be happy after this is all over" I said "Well not going to be happy about my family being split up".

Man so much that went on. Quoted a few things from the support group and even mentioned she should attend after she told me about how she had been feeling. Quoted the "once lawyers get involved is like a battlefield. You should spend the money on finding and fixing the problems instead of paying them"

So anyways, W admitted how she is a WA. I know what I have to work on! And W also pointed out, "its ------(forgot how she put it) that you are so into God now you and never were when I was around" I said "its just like I told you Sat night on the phone, something has lead me there and this is the only way I am going to make it through this time. other than that, I cant answer you why."

W also sorta thanked me for letting her not be dependent on anyone evermore. Said it was always me or her mom that she depended on and now I liberated her. How she has had to move twice this year, get a job, pay own bills, blah blah blah. Said I just want to get this all settled and Im glad we are able to hang out, then after its settled we can be friends even though you said in your letter you didnt want to be.

Its late and probably scattered brain but man. Did ask wife what miracle would have had to happen to turn this around. Her reply was "i dont know, probably nothing" So got shot down on that one. Told me I just had this feeling and didnt go away. I gave myself a month and still had it.

I told her how counselor wants to talk either on phone, or email to help me in my sessions to figure out how to guide me. W wasnt too happy cause think C will try to talk W out of the D cause she feels everytime we went did that. So i just gotta let tonight soak in with each other and go from there. Baby steps, its never too late. Goodnight.

[jandn]

I think I need to express to W how much I am going to miss her. That is one thing W pointed out. I am thinking about writing a letter to tell W what I am thinking and so W can see it on paper and absorb it. I think I need to express to her when she is feeling down or whatever she is going through that I will be there to listen for her.

I might have been a little pushy after W left, cause sent text thanking her for coming over and really enjoyed your company. She thanked me for having her and brownies. I went out on a limb and said, welcome, too bad you couldnt stay longer or all nite:-( See you in the morning! Didnt get anything back.

So I show up with D and we play with her a little bit and say too bad we cant hang out today. W says, I dont have any vacation time and really cant take any more days off. Said thats ok. So, I didnt give her that book or flower, but put it on her door after I left, then sent text about how to check it that was a just a lill something from yesterday since I wasnt able to give it to at your work:( Have a good day 2day!

Then I bit later a song came on that she mentioned cause I said to W lastnight "dont think I dont think about it" in reference to how the things I have done. Texted her to tell her it was on but no response, think she has crawled into her shell, need to lay back and wait for contact. Thought I would be getting something about the D possibly being sick.

[jandn]

I remember how W put it when she was leaving now, said "I can come out and talk some more this weekend, just tell me when, and we can go through some more stuff". Thats what it was cause i was like yes, more talk! Think its time to hang back and go with the flow. Need to tell W that what she proposed for next week is fine, about W for Thurs so I get kids on the 4ht during the day until she gets off work in the afternoon. W will really be happy I agree to this. Also get to see W for S's soccer practice Sat morning so more time to plug at.

Well, I am in good spirits after the past few days. Hopefully nothing happens from W where she winds me up. Cant get my hope up too much. I think as much as W would like to get on, is having a hard time dealing with things and feeling guilt.

One thing she keeps bringing up is how she is going back to school this fall. "Im going to better myself and make just as much if not more than you in a few years", ok thanks for bragging and trying to put me down I thought. Guess maybe I should be more supportive of W when she talks about going back.

[tomcat65]

Boy,jardin.You do so good at some of this stuff,hard to believe she is still so scared to give you a chance.

I just started going through the stuff you are now,its wicked confusing.

Funny how every time they talk about something it always comes back to,I need to get my stuff.

That happens to me every time but it never seems to happen.

Just take care,you seem to be talking very well with W.

Communication is key,keep it up-Mike

[jandn]

Yes still not in the clear and might never be. I dont think W's emotions are going to cease after talking last night and will still continue to eat at her. Its like if I could just get her to see and hear what I have been hearing, get W over the forgiveness part, it will all come together.

Didnt think I was being anaylzed as much as I was, but man, how wrong was I on a few things. Really have to thank the people on here and all the other materials I have been given to get to this point. W is seeing changes and think its eating her justification up! W did text earlier thanking me for the gifts, time to retract for a bit from her.

[tomcat65]

I think im being tested to,do you think that is normal in this sitch,My W on monday was emotionaly all over the place,asking questions about everything.Also critisizing everything,do you still get reactions like this.

I did get the impression she was scared,sound like your w too

.Take care good luck-Mike

[jandn]

Scared but confident. Everything I get accused of is like what she is doing but i just sit there and take it. It was like W detached the same time i did for a month. But yes wasnt liking anything i did or say and wasnt afraid to make comments at me.

[sandi2]

Hi jandn,

I read your post on another thread and you asked for somebody to please help you. I started at the very beginning of your thread and tried to read all of it, but it dragged me down to much, so I started skipping over some places. I think I missed the part about having sex. I thought it was a little strange that unlike most men that talk about how much they want their wife back and miss her and talk about trying to get some kind of physical touch from her.....I never saw where you mentioned this at all. Perhaps that was the part I skipped.

I also noticed that you never talked much about the children except the tossing them back and forth between the two of you (my words...not yours). You are very, very obsessed with your wife and getting her back (I think), but if the problems are not resolved before she comes back home.....then you have not accomplished anything other than her living under the same roof. The two of you will be miserable.

If you made any attempts in detaching from your wife....I missed that also. I have never seen a couple that is suppose to be separated making so much contact and "hanging out" together and going out to dinner together. I suppose you are calling this your attempt to "date" her and woo her back into the M? But to be honest, I had a hard time understanding the way you posted....not your fault, just me. I did get the idea that you were just "journaling" instead of seeking advice from the people here on the board. I never saw you make any goals or objectives or talk about any specifics where you had changed. You just recored every day's events and what she said and what you said.

I am also wondering if you are even using Michelle's DR book. I did not see where you referred to it, however you did refer to another book. Maybe that is one of Michelle's and I don't know about it. If so, please infrom me.

Did have some sex talk about the other day. She asked if I regretted it, I said no. I let her look at my DivorceCare book and recommended she go, cause she is feeling like I am. I showed it to her cause I said "is this what you are feeling?" Was a ball of entangled emotions and she said yes it is and looked through the whole book, my notes and all.

First of all, if this is one of Michelle's books (which I haven't heard of), it was not for her to see. Michelle gives tools for you to use and not for the other spouse to see you "game plan". Why would you do that?

Said "well on these losses you never mention anything about me, just the kids and money" I countered with "thats what the whole program is about is being torn apart from you".

As I see it, showing her this book and program backfired on you. First, it showed her that you are being "needy" instead of her seeing a strong man standing in front of her. Seondly, it brought up resentment over the money and kids. So in the long run.....it was not a good thing for her to see your workbook.

Here is another thing I would like to point out to you....and it was hard to pick just one out of so many.....

I might have been a little pushy after W left, cause sent text thanking her for coming over and really enjoyed your company. She thanked me for having her and brownies. I went out on a limb and said, welcome, too bad you couldnt stay longer or all nite:-( See you in the morning! Didnt get anything back.

I cannot begin to tell you how pushy you are! That is why I feel that you are not using Michelle's principles. Aslo, the 5 love languages are always mentioned by somebody, and that is okay except I feel that it is a litte difficult to implement that when the couple has split and headed for divorce. The time that should have been used was when the wife was home before the split.

Here's another example of what I talking about you being way too pushy and putting pressure on her and pursuing.

So I show up with D and we play with her a little bit and say too bad we cant hang out today. W says, I dont have any vacation time and really cant take any more days off. Said thats ok. So, I didnt give her that book or flower, but put it on her door after I left, then sent text about how to check it that was a just a lill something from yesterday since I wasnt able to give it to at your work:( Have a good day 2day!

It's a good thing that it is your wife and not me b/c that would would probably make me want to throw up. Man you are so weak and needy and cliny.....why would she want to go back to that? You think you are romancing her......you aren't! You are showing her how weak you are without her. You need to first detach and do all the things Michelle outlines and then later when the time is right....think about the romancing stage. This is not the right time and it is pushing her further away.

Then I bit later a song came on that she mentioned cause I said to W lastnight "dont think I dont think about it" in reference to how the things I have done. Texted her to tell her it was on but no response, think she has crawled into her shell, need to lay back and wait for contact. Thought I would be getting something about the D possibly being sick.

No, she has not crawled into her shell.....you are making her sick of you! My God, give the woman some breathing room. She walked away from you....rememeber?

One thing she keeps bringing up is how she is going back to school this fall. "Im going to better myself and make just as much if not more than you in a few years",

See? She has goals in her mind for her future and you don't seem to be a part of that.

ok thanks for bragging and trying to put me down I thought.

Well, you should have gotten the message and stopped.

Instead, you go on with this:

Guess maybe I should be more supportive of W when she talks about going back.

Look, I am going to copy and post which is a long list that I have given to a few people that simply have no clue what DB is all about--and you clearly do not. So, here it is and please start to work on it as soon as possible. You asked for help and this is the only way I know how to give it to you. It will be up to you to use it as a guide or not. I have the idea that you are a hard man to get through to and that you already think you know what is best and determined to go that route. However, I hope whatever program you are using...you will throw it away and use Michelle's.

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!
2. No frequent phone calls to him/her.......let him/her be the one
to call you. Then don't try to hang on to him/her through
conversation.....say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to
read marriage books, etc.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house like a puppy dog trying to
get his/her time and attention. (Remember, you are drawing him/her
back with this technique.)
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.)
8. Do not buy gifts. (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together. (That is pursuing.)
10.Do not spy on spouse. (Not good for you and will make
matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make him/her say it too......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act as if you are moving on with your life!
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times!
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do
things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the
conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be scarce or
short on words. If he/she asks what's wrong....just
say "nothing". Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an
argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home!
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she
will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any
changes!!)
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse
happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to
be around, somebody that is attractive and fun.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let him/her trap you into a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how he/she feels (it only makes his/her feelings
more negative.)
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give him/her space and time.
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil)
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting
more than ever and are desperate and needy
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what
you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

It's a long list, but very valuable. It may be late in the "game" of things to start implementing this guidline, but I don't think what you are doing is working.

Again, if I am mistaken about the material you are using, please tell me more about it b/c I have not heard of that book by Michelle.

If you do have her Divorce Busting or Divorce Remedy....please read it again and highlight the parts that apply to your stitch.

Sorry about the 2x4, but as I told others, I am speaking as an almost WAW from a 41 year M. I think I know what I am talking about here. People want what they think they can't have. Remember that, please. You are chasing her and it is not working. You will lose her. Please reconsider the game plan.

One more thing before I go.....in your posts, I often felt that your wife was playing you just for the money. It seemed very obvious to me, but I hope I'm wrong. She may be "trying" to go along with you in order to get money. Be careful and take care.

Sandi