In this case the basement is not a direct affront, or giving the wife the finger "I'm moving to the basement". Rightly or wrongly, the whole snoring thing is a nice excuse to reduce my frustration. Again, why sleep next to somebody that you don't have sex with?
Who knows, maybe she will have an epiphany here, but that remains highly unlikely until our financial situation improves. Even then, who knows. Litterally, counseling would be a choice between groceries and that, so we can't go anyway.
NTE - Well it would appear you are headed for the basement. I don't think that is a good move.
This is one of those instances where I will respectfully disagree with you, DanceQueen. Such a separation, even an in-house one, can give them each a much needed break from the old in-bedroom conflicts and bad habits of interaction. It could do them some good.
Near needs some time to rediscover himself as a strong, confident man. He needs to regain a sense of independence and rebuild his self-esteem. Constant exposure to a woman who shows him little beyond contempt and disgust is very damaging, and I think some isolation from that will do him some good.
Near's wife needs to realize that there is a price to be paid for constantly 'heaping' all of the ills in their marriage onto his shoulders and taking no responsibility for herself. She needs to see that he DOES have a limit to the amount of contempt and scapegoating that he'll tolerate. As long as he continues to hang on in their bedroom, hoping for whatever dregs of affection she offers him, she has no incentive to change herself. As long as she knows that he's so worried about what the children, or their family, or their friends will think that he'd rather continue the facade of a good relationship than take specific steps to reassert himself, then she's got him. She doesn't have to change a thing.
But if Near is willing to draw a line, to tell her that he's no longer willing to live a facade, that he's no longer willing to be her scapegoat, and that SHE needs to take some responsibility for their relationship too, then this in-house separation could be a good thing for both of them. However, I'm not suggesting that Near say this today (or tomorrow even), since it's pretty obviously it would just create yet another verbal battle. For the moment, it's enough that he's gently regaining some of his independence via a quiet move downstairs. The talks can come later when they've both cooled off a bit.
In other words, I see this in-house separation as a true reflection of where their relationship is at the moment, and a dropping of the "happily married" facade. It's an honest place to start rebuilding from.
My thoughts are with you Near; I know it's not fun right now, but keep working to make some lemonade from those lemons you've been handed.
Bagheera
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Baggy - I agree with you in theory, but I have little hope that either NTE or his wife will really put in the hard work necessary to fix this. Therefore, I can see a situation where he will end up in the basement in this in-house separation for the next 10 years until the kids are grown up. He even said that was a possibility in his first thread. The thought of being in an in-house separation just waiting out a divorce is horrible to me. Just get it done if that is what is going to happen anyway...that is just my feelings on it.
In my marriage my ex-h and I slept in separate bedrooms for the last 4 years of our marriage. Did it help? Chyuh...no it just made it easier for me to leave him when the time came to realize that neither of us were going to do the hard work.
Just my two cents...
NTE - Not sure what you mean about the physical stuff on the vacation. I thought you were on sex strike.
Baggy - I agree with you in theory, but I have little hope that either NTE or his wife will really put in the hard work necessary to fix this. Therefore, I can see a situation where he will end up in the basement in this in-house separation for the next 10 years until the kids are grown up.....
I hear ya, DQ. When I moved out of the master bedroom and into my home office, I wasn't sure if I would ever return to the master again either. Rather like Near, I felt like I was just doing time until the youngest kid turned 18. That situation lasted for about 5 years, until I decided enough was enough --> it was either time to fix the marriage or give it up. Luckily, my story has a happy ending: we're back together in the same bedroom now, and our relationship is better than it has been in many years.
So I agree with you -- it's a crap shoot as to whether (and when) Near goes back to the master bedroom. At same time, however, it's a CHANGE from the status quo, and right now, the status quo sucks for him. He can use the opportunity to focus on improving himself. His wife might initially say "Cool! Now I don't have to fight over the covers or listen to snoring!," but beds have a tendency to get pretty lonely, pretty quick, when you've been used to having someone there. Maybe it will cause her to think a bit. I hope so, anyway.
To Near's question: I'm with DQ here --> stick with the plan, and have fun with the kids. From all you've described, she doesn't make love to you, nor let you make love to her, anyway.
It's your call, however, my friend.
-- B.
Last edited by Bagheera; 06/25/0806:02 PM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
NTE - I absolutely think you should "have a headache". There is no point at this time in trying to have sex with her or giving in if she initiates. You two have so much undealt with animosity that it would actually be unhealthy to have sex.
Later, if you can make some progress with talking and BOTH of you trying to come to the table with solutions, then its time to have sex again. Until then, its only going to make you both feel worse.
And Baggy - I'm so happy it worked for you or at least that it didn't lead to divorce, to be in-house separated. I know it can work sometimes...I just don't want to see anyone have to go through it, it is nearly worse that being truly separated...knowing from having been there, too.
NTE - we're rooting for you...but unless you and your wife really *want* this to work, neither of you will be willing to make it work.
I know you feel you *want* it to work but I am talking about a different type of *wanting* than what you understand...
You will only understand it after either:
1. You do as Bagheera did and become the bigger person...or...
2. You are divorced and in hindsight you can see where you failed your wife as much as she has failed you.
Hey hon, Sorry to hear you are going thru such a hard time. Ouch is right! My advice is to follow your heart and be true to yourself right now. I think the basemnt or some sort of seperation might be good too. But it has to go hand in hand with change, if you are going to camp out there to somehow prove as point or punish her then it will do no use, you may as well stay in your bedroom. BUT, and a big but at that.....
If you are going to stay there for space and to find the Man you lost years ago then by all means do it.. and who cares if you cant afford a Counselor right now, you can do lots of reading and working on you until you can afford one. I could never afford one either but I could afford the book The Divorce Remedy, and the book Passionate Marriage.... and with DR I had a journal and I made mini goals for myself .
Example,, by July 7 my H will kiss me on the cheek before he goes to work.....
Sure sounds simple doesnt it? ..... and something so little? ..... but boy is that a prize when you are legally seperated and on your way to Divorce. ( BTDT)
Almost 99% of my MINI goals were achieved.
It is going to take a lot of work hon, and even if in say a year she doesnt change, you will be stronger by then and a different person and you will be better able to handle your life and the curveballs that get thrown at you.
We are all here for you..
What I would like to see for you is for you to focus on you and your well being.. she is having too much fun using you as her "punching bag"
You deserve so much more and so does she she just doesnt know it yet.....
She may be a tough nut to crack , but the calmer you are and the more grounded you are the better. May I also suggest Reading The Four Agreements from Don Miguel Ruiz and The Mastery Of love? By Him also. For you apply it to you... The library has all these books and its free!~
Time to get to work on you.... Take cold shower... just being a smart a**.
No but really how about starting an exercise regime too? Running.. lifting weights.. or just plain walking...
it will help with your Depression. BTDT~
All my best to you hon...
you can do this....
I too have been so depressed it seemed better just to end it... not a god idea... The world is a better place cause you are in it.. a year from now I will bet on it you will agree with me. K? So get your a** in gear.. stop feeling sad and lets see some action. You are going to be the Man you used to be.... it will just take some hard work on your part to get there k? WE are all right here suporting you. I promise~
Good Morning ~NTE.