I Think I Have Officially DB'd Guys!!!

[jethro]

Wow! Thanks to everyone for the visits!

Before I respond to everyone's questions and suggestions, I just want to say that I told my W (via e-mail...unfortunately...because she asked while I was at work and I'm not free to talk here) that I agreed with her that I was getting hung up on OM and that I would do my best to not bring it up any longer. Interestingly, although I didn't write it in the e-mail, she mentioned the fact that she thinks that I think she doesn't love me. (Weird...because it was as though she read my post and was responding to that portion of it...hmmm...makes me wonder. She does know the site...naw...I don't think she's peeking.) In any case, she went on to say that everyone's love evolves and it's not the same as it was in the beginning (of our R)...and that her love has evolved into something else...but that something else isn't bad. That she feels different types of love for me at different times...that she doesn't ALWAYS feel "that" love for me because feelings fluctuate...but she does feel it sometimes.

What do you guys think of this? I am still unsure how to take this information. It seems reasonable, but...

"we need to look to the future, not the past!"

Jeez...if I had a $1 every time my W said that to me...

Make sure you start "letting" her step up to the R some more. Make sure that YOU don't work on it so hard that there's nothing left for her to do. She may not do this EXACTLY the way you want it done, but from what I've seen with you two here so far, she'll probably pick up some of the slack.

Thanks, JJ. Good idea. I've been trying this more lately, but I still feel compelled to take charge at times. I think she is coming to the plate ever so slowly.

Have you read After the Affair? I found that book very hopeful (my H still involved with OW ) and might be helpful to you. Just a thought.

Yes, I bought it as soon as I found out about her A. It was difficult to read, but made a lot of sense. I have suggested to my W that she read it so she knows where I'm coming from, but alas, she has not. I think she's afraid of the pain because she's read some of DR and LL when I've asked.

must be "secret" handbooks out there that each of us roll players are doomed to follow.

Well, when I find it I'll send you a copy.

let me apologize to Jethro for stealing this thread for a minute to respond to this post.

No prob, T2. I have to say your description of "ignoring" things to just try and make sure you got your M back together sounds quite familiar. I think, as betrayed Ses, we have to trust our instincts to determine whether our Ses are genuinely working on our Rs. We have to trust ourselves, our instincts, when we chose to ignore them in the past when our Ses were having their As. I think this particular transition is difficult.

Hi LL. Why are you picking on me? God bless you.

why do we keep these score cards?

It's less keeping a score card than it is that I put more effort into nurturing our R than she does. I feel I take her feelings more into consideration than she does me. Does that make sense? So the dishes/trash analogy isn't quite what I'm talking about; however, I will admit that those thoughts DO cross my mind.

Jethro are you taking it personally when w doesn't give as much as you think she should to you?

I suppose you could call it "personal." I get frustrated with the frequent apathetic behavior. I understand we have on days and off days, but she'll be "off" until I call her on it. Then she'll be "on" for a while until the cycle repeats.

what do you mean by "how she behaved in the past"?
do you treat her the same as you did in the past?
do you look at her the same way?
do you love her any less than you did before. (I'm afraid of what the answer to the last one will be)

She behaved like she "loved" me more adoringly in the past (that's the best way I can of to put it).
I suppose I treat her similarly in some ways and differently in another. I've become more aware and tolerant.
I DO NOT look at her the same way. The pedistal has fallen and she's truly human now.
Ahh...do I love her less? I'm not sure. I think it's just changed. Again, the realization that this person is fallable has broken what I think was somewhat of a fantasy that I've had for years.

ok then, what is it you are "expecting" in return that you aren't getting in some form or another?

I still come back to her wanting to love me in a more adoringly way, like she used to.

let's define your "needs" vs. your "wants" and see if we can't all come up with some plan to go about getting them met.

Well, when it comes down to it, what do all of us "need" really? She's been pretty good about meeting my needs/wants as of late...when reminded. Thing is, the dynamic with us is she goes into pull-back mode, which (unfortunately, but understandably) sends up red flags everywhere. I get uncomfortable in our R because she's less present, less soft, more distant, less loving, less communicative, etc. This is typically when I "remind" her...

she didn't want to be with you why the heck would she be there...why would she call you like she did yesterday to see how you were doing, why would she even make the slightest attempt at fixing things. If she didn't want to be with you I doubt you'd even get half of what you're getting now.

Agreed.

she can't be afraid of loosing you if you are always so concerned with whether or not she wants to be with you. when you stop being afraid to loose her maybe she'll then show you some of that jeolousy.

HA!!! Good point!

You mentioned expectations you have of her behavior. Have you told her those? Have you told her what actions you need from her?

Ohh...yes...I'm pretty verbal about these things.

also wonder if maybe she'll get a little closer to you if you drop the OM talk. Not sure, but maybe you should even say that. "I know I've been a bit obsessive about the OM, it's been hurtful to me but I'm going to try to move past that now". And then let her know what you want for your R. Just nicely, calmly. Find out what she wants.

I told her I'd cool off on OM man talk yesterday, DFB. I do have to say, you bring up a very interesting point about asking what her needs are. I've been doing things for her that she likes (and has mentioned in the past), but perhaps it's time for a revisit. I think, in a way, I've been a bit self-centered lately. Thanks, DFB.

And thanks to everyone for their support.

jethro