Quoting Wiley:Many of us here would stick our pride in our back pocket and make that trade with you.
Understood. Thing is, Wiley, I have given her three BIG opportunities to come clean with me and have learned more each time I give her this opportunity. It's less about what she did than it is that she lied about it to begin with when all I wanted was the truth to begin with. I can swallow my pride only so much...
Quoting Sandra:This has been my dilema...
I know, Sandra. In fact, yesterday morning when I was working out and thinking about sending an e-mail to my W, I was thinking about what you've posted. IMHO, it is always best to be totally honest...especially in these situations. Lies and half-truths have a tendency to come back and bite us in the a$$. She was scared... She was scared that it would set us back from all of the progress we've made. And yes, she was also trying to protect my feelings...but I told her that that's not her decision to make...
Quoting holdingon:You thought all along that it was a PA, right? Otherwise you wouldn't have obsessed about it.
Well, I knew all along it was a PA because she told me it was. The ONLY thing they supposedly didn't do was have actual intercourse (but all the other bells and whistles were there). Thing is, Holdingon, she has led me to believe time and time again that this is where it stopped (but believe me, I'm not stupid and suspected it anyway). She told me numerous times that she didn't have intercourse with him because she thought "she could live with herself if she didn't." Well, all of that song and dance BS was just that. She did do it. Her fabricated reasons for not doing it just demonstrate yet another level of deceit that bothers me.
So, yesterday I came home early and left with the kids. I couldn't even look my W in the eye. In fact, I was dreading having to see her at all because I didn't know what to say to her. I just thought it best that I had time to sort out my thoughts before having a discussion. This is a 180 for me because I'm one of those compulsive, we-have-to-work-this-out-now (even if it's 3:00 AM) types of people.
She tried to engage me, but was respectful of me needing space. We didn't start talking until around 11:00. It was a good talk that lasted into the wee morning hours. She feels awful about everything...naturally...and reaffirmed her committment to making things work. A lot was said, good things and painful things, that I don't really want to post right now...
Aww gee!, Jethro ... I just don't get why this has to be so hard ... always feel like we have to battle uphill all the time to get where we want to be ... but I guess we have to accept the fact, that is the way it is ...
Big-J, you have dealt with this for six months now and have done an admirable job in succeeding in putting the worst of times behind you. However, your W has also witness how this has tormented you and your struggle to put this at peace. She has to be anguishing (as Sandra has mentioned) with "Will what I still haven't told him be the straw that destroys it all?" ... especially now she knows with all her heart, she doesn't want that to happen now!!! She has made the choice not to tell you yet based on her intentions to ease your suffering.
You always ask me if in my sitch if I can engage with W more ... I understand that comes from - it works for you. I don't know if this is any of the ground you covered in last night's talk, but it seems like a prime oppurtunity to prove to her whatever more she is holding onto, in trying to protect you, can be let go because you are strong enough now to not let any of it get in the way of building towards a bright future together. Deliver that message, Jethro, then by doing this, you can make it safe to ask for her to reveal all, in order to get past this for good. In times past, while you had asked, I don't believe she felt convinced you could taken it in stride and been able to work thru it and had led to her judgement to not reveal anymore than she did at the time.
While it still hurts that you now that she was keeping this from you, I don't think she could conceive that there is any greater hurt than the one she was trying to protect you from. Her intent here was not to hurt you more but to ease you suffering in the only way she felt she could. If in your talk last night, this came out as not being far from what she told you, I hope it might make it easier to forgive. If you can forgive her for hurting you with having an A, can't you forgive her for trying to spare you from any more hurt.
So Jethro, are you willing enough .... strong enough ... to get past anything she may throw at you, that she no longer needs to feel she has to protect you from all she can reveal? If the answer yes, then can not let her bear witness to any internal struggle brought forth in what she reveals to you. If the answer is no, then perhaps, its best to let go of knowing any more about the A and accept her choice for what she hasn't told you.
Ahh, KAW, my friend. The derailed train is back on its track...just with a few more dings and scratches...
She sent me this in an e-mail this morning: "I know this is rough for you, sweetie. I really wish i could snap my fingers and take it all away and make it all better. You are a saint...you are teaching ME some valuable lessons in life ... i hope you get to a point where you can forgive me again."
My response was: "Yes, it’s very rough and I too wish you could snap your fingers.
I do not feel like a saint. Although I’ve met the challenge of this situation, I feel like I’ve done many things wrong. Ahhh…wisdom is not easily gained, is it?
I have already forgiven you...I told you so, although I suppose you probably question whether I really do. Just know that I do. Okay? As so f**king hard as this is, I know that we’re poised to have so much more than most couples in the world. I ask for your continued patience and help in getting me/us through this, as I will you. It’s going to take a long time, W...it just is...
You still mean the world to me."
We're okay, KAW. I'm tired that the hurt just continues...but I'm thankful that she's in a place where she and I can talk about it.
Hiya, 'Thro! Man, I know how you feel when the hurt just keeps coming. This may be too late, but always give yourself time to be mad and be selfish and have a self-pity mope. Just don't do anything to hurt anybody until you've exhausted those feelings. I know you already know that, and my guess is that's what you did. SOrry you had to be there for awhile...
Now, though, assuming you've completed a good healthy mope: MAN, you guys are doing great! heh, heh!
Hanging in there through this yuckymuck. She seems like she's really earnest in wanting to work on this stuff. That's nice. After you get done moping, things always look so much fresher, huh? Go back and read some of your upbeat posts about being done DBing! List three things you're happy about today! Congratulate yourself for handling all this crap so much better than you could have! No on is a saint, but there are better ways to handle things, and you're finding them. GOOD JOB!
Hi Jethro. Sorry things have been so rotten lately for you. I don't remember which one, but one of my books about affairs stated that most betrayed spouses are hurt more from lies (or omissions) that happen after the affair is discovered. You have every right to feel the same feelings as you did just after you found out what was going on. And yes, it would have been nice if she had told you everything up front so the wound would be deeper, but could heal all together; as opposed to reopening the wound that was created when the affair was discovered and thusly leaving an uglier scar.
However, your goal is still the same, right? You want to save the marriage and have a happy life together. At least this time around you have the support and skills to get past her lies. I am certain you can do it.
As for what holdingon said,
Quote: And by the way, I think you SHOULD beat the crap out of OM.
I don't think this is a very good idea, unless you can do it without being arrested. My altercation with W's OM has cost us over $7000 in lawyer's fees and most likely will be higher before it runs it's course through our judicial system. Makes me want to hurt the guy even more...I would like to get my money's worth, you know?
Anyway, that affairs book (that I cannot remember the exact name) makes the point that the betraying spouse hides things so as not to hurt the betrayed spouse even further. Or, the betrayer is so ashamed that he or she cannot face the anger that the betrayed might feel.
Unfortunately, as you and I know, such actions are counterproductive and painful. I don't know how I would react to Sam not admitting to one affair because it was "only oral" and admitting to the other because she slept with the guy. It wouldn't be pretty. The pain caused by an affair is already too much to bear, and to then pile lies on top of it while you are dbing your a$$ off to rebuild trust...it is almost a deal breaker.
That being said, I strongly believe KAW is right:
Quote: ...but it seems like a prime oppurtunity to prove to her whatever more she is holding onto, in trying to protect you, can be let go because you are strong enough now to not let any of it get in the way of building towards a bright future together. Deliver that message, Jethro, then by doing this, you can make it safe to ask for her to reveal all...
You have come so far and have worked very hard to save your marriage. Don't stop now. Yes, you have the right to be disappointed and even angry, but work through it. Tell her, "This is it. Is there anything else I should know. Tell me now so we can fix it, otherwise I don't feel I can trust you."
Quoting KAW:I get the feeling Jethro that with the second half of that sentence, that the painful portion of this experience won't continue for too much longer...
Not sure, KAW. For whatever reason, I feel like I'm reliving the afteraffects of knowing she had an A again. I am, frankly, having trouble processing all of this information. In a way, I feel like my head is going to explode. I'm having trouble concentrating on much of anything...although this has been an ongoing problem as a result of my M problems. My W continues to apologize, but I have to be careful what I say and when I say it so as to not throw her into too much of a funk.
The other night I couldn't sleep...felt like my heart was going to jump out of my chest... I was restless. So, around 1 or 2 AM my W and I began talking. I just felt so stressed and said to her, "something's got to give." Well, this made her nervous about my health and started feeling an anxiety attack coming on. Great. So, here I am laying with my heart feeling like it's going to jump out of my chest and next to me my W who was trying to avoid having an anxiety attack. What a pair we are. See what I mean about what I can say? It wasn't like I was going off or anything...just telling her how I was feeling.
I don't know if everything is coming to a head or what...if all of the crap that has built up inside me needs to exit my body...I just don't know. I also find it difficult coming to the BB to vent like this because so many think of my situation as great, but I still find myself in the so much pain sometimes.
Not only do I find it difficult to concentrate, but I am so overwhelmed with this junk that I am getting lazy. Although, admittedly, I try to purposely fight this by doing stuff anyway. Gotta be action oriented!
So on and on it goes... I know I need to get my head straight. I know I need to continue doing all those things I've been doing. I know I need to concentrate on the positives. I know all this, yet I just can't seem to get my head above water. Dammit, it's frustrating! I need a vacation and I need time to sort all of these conflicting feelings.
Quoting SBH-SAM:This may be too late, but always give yourself time to be mad and be selfish and have a self-pity mope.
I think I am...
Quoting RJJ:I am hurting for you, my friend.
Thanks, Robin. It's nice to hear from you.
Quoting SBH:You have every right to feel the same feelings as you did just after you found out what was going on. And yes, it would have been nice if she had told you everything up front so the wound would be deeper, but could heal all together; as opposed to reopening the wound that was created when the affair was discovered and thusly leaving an uglier scar.
You summed it up well, SBH.
Quoting SBH:Tell her, "This is it. Is there anything else I should know. Tell me now so we can fix it, otherwise I don't feel I can trust you."
I'm afraid telling her this makes little difference. She decides what I need to know when based on her ideas of protecting my feelings. I believe her intentions are good, but it's not good for me. I think, for now, I am just going to have to "believe her." She is very adamant that I know everything; however, she's been this adamant before and I've come to find out more information.
I don't know, guys. I think that I really need to take a vacation and recharge my batteries. Too much is going on right now and I'm getting overwhelmed. I can only hope that with each passing day I'll feel better. Dear God I hope so...
Been a while. What can I say after the superb posts of SAD , Sam, and KAW??
Except that one weird, positive way to view this is that if your W DIDN'T feel as secure, confident in your M and in YOU...she probably WOULDN'T have told the truth this time!!! That's a sign of progress, isn't it??
I think you're doing really well, J. Never apologize for being a "downer" here!! We ALL come here to mope and rant sometimes!!
I need a vacation and I need time to sort all of these conflicting feelings.