And the day came ...

[sage]

No discussion or real contact with h. yesterday. I didn't send him an email of apology -- partly because I wasn't sure what to say and partly because I was afraid he would think that I was being manipulative or controlling in some way.

I'm feeling so darned confused right now. On the one hand, I feel like at this point, it should be ok for me to ask for reassurance re. ow and our m. and NOT have to deal with D talk and anger and whatever. On the other hand, I'm mad at myself for doing "more of the same" -- not just focusing on the great stuff that h. IS doing, needing reassurance, mistrusting, etc. I wish that I could have pushed thru this on my own but I just couldn't, I don't know why. Lack of patience, bad DB'ing, a weakness in me?

I've been noticing a definite correlation between my r. and talitsa's. In her last post she talks about how her MC told both her and h that they were both suffering from needing reassurance from each other (tho' they obviously play out their anxiety in different ways). There's a big part of me that thinks the same is true for h and me. GOD KNOWS that my anxiety and insecurity and need for reassurance is just hanging out all over the place At least that's the way it seems to me -- tho' perhaps what is so clearly FEAR in my mind looks like something completely different in h's.

BUT, what about him? Was ow in part a sign that I just wasn't loving him enough? giving him the reassurance that he needed? no doubt. SO WHAT ABOUT NOW??? (Yes, I'm yelling!) Is ow still around as a safety net? or am I just crazy (or both)? Does h think that I'm angry at him? that I don't love him? that I don't love our m?

It's not that. It really isn't. I'm terrified of giving myself completely to him and to our m. while I think ow is still around -- OR that he's still thinking "escape route" -- yet as I've said before, I don't think he'll STOP thinking escape route until he feels it fully from me.

What I was asking for the other day was some SIGN that he could take a step towards me. I don't think I can make this big, giant, scary, alligator infested leap alone. I need him to lean over and reach out his hand -- maybe risking getting bitten himself -- to help me along.

I don't know what to do now. I want to send him pointers to talitsa's threads (I won't). I want to ask him to read "after the affair" (I won't). I want to let him know how much I want his love and our m. Will I?

Sage

[lostlove]

I want to let him know how much I want his love and our m. Will I?

I'm sure you will find a way!

I know that because "they" had the a...it seems to us that we are the only ones in need of reasurance and major giving of love...BUT...it can't work that way...we also have to give love...praise and reasure...

I was feeling a bit foolish at first, complimenting my h..whether on the yard work or simply for just being himself...not just pointing out the positives in him when they directly relate to me but the positives in him that are him. it has helped both of us...1. it reminds me why I married him in the first place, 2. it let's him know that I do appreciate him for him, 3. it gives him an opportunity to throw back a compliment at me (oh that ones selfish now isn't it! )

you're going to be fine sage, it may take a couple days of walking on major egg shells but it's all going to work itself out..ow aint around...you are!!

LL

[Jeannine]

On the one hand, I feel like at this point, it should be ok for me to ask for reassurance re. ow and our m. and NOT have to deal with D talk and anger and whatever.

From my perspective, I don't think it should even be an issue as to whether it is "ok" to seek reassurance, just HOW are you going to accomplish this?

tho' perhaps what is so clearly FEAR in my mind looks like something completely different in h's.

Good point Sage. The very make-up of the male brain does make it a little more difficult for many men to translate the subtle distinctions in expression that mark various emotions. (Research has proven this, not me). My H often misinterprets my facial expressions and I think sometimes it has caused him to judge my moods incorrectly, thereby causing him to treat me according to his misinterpretation, which causes me to be hurt by what seemes like unkind behavior on his part for no good reason and....on and on.

I wish that I could have pushed thru this on my own but I just couldn't, I don't know why. Lack of patience, bad DB'ing, a weakness in me?

I couldn't disagree more. That you are a human being with needs just like everyone else, would be closer to the truth, I think. You understand the need for validating you H's thoughts and feelings perfectly well. Why would you think that you can do without the same indefinately and not be affected adversely?

Sage, do you have any means of relieving some of that pent up tension in your body, like running, dancing or beating up a gang of innocent pillows perhaps?

Jeannine

[holdingon]

Sage,
I was rereading DR yesterday (advised to by BB!) and it specifically addressed what you were hoping to get from your H: reassurance. It said you will be looking for a SIGN and won't find it. You might want to reread that part, about the H coming back, it will probably validate the feelings you are having over this. Won't make the feelings any less, but will validate them in any case.

[Caz]

Hi Sage,

RE: email message to your H. Are you sorry for your actions or your words to H? Are you thinking of sending the email just to smooth things over or because you feel that something you did was handled badly? If you can't find the words for an email, what about a simple "Hallmark" card that says I'm sorry! A funny card or sincere card. What ever your since of style or H's style would appreciate? Maybe this would break the ice? Or maybe this is a bad idea? Or maybe you have nothing to say you are sorry for? Just feel guilty for backslide that has occurred?

Thinking of you. Maybe this backslide will break the ice for more major breakthroughs in the future. Sometimes the hard stuff needs to happen before more progress is seen. Maybe this was your time for a reality check on what you want to see in the future and how far you have come over the past 6 mos. Keep your chin up and think positive thoughts. What about acting "As if"

One day at a time!

[lostlove]

sage,

wonder if a while ago you recall my making reference to the power of krispy kreme doghnuts?

h and I had a tiff of some sort...no doubt r related...things were pleasant at best but some of the "connection" we had been building was lost...I turned one of h's "obligatory" calls into a silly conversation about my craving for a krispy kreme (when the heck are they comming to this neck of the woods wait til you try one...oh ya I'm not really supposed to be talking about doghnuts now am I, better get back to the point)

if you don't know how to or just don't feel totaly compelled to apologize at least for your reaction the other night it is possible to break the ice with something un related...perhaps some play time with the kittys and h? a friendly e-mail about them?? something? anything? spur of the moment?

maybe once some of the tension lifts...you may then feel more comfortable appologizing for your actions or insecurities (imagine that apologizing for feeling insecure as a result of a neg that someone else added? whew) and h may surprise you with understanding. after all that is what we are all after isn't it? understanding...the lbs wants to have their pain understood and the waw s want to have their pain understood as well.

LL

[psluke]

Hi Sage,

You seem to be getting some really good advice here. I'm sorry your H doesn't seem to be willing to help you finish the feelings you still have over the a. I do agree with what Caz said, about breaking the ice. A lot of times when H and I have emotional scenes like that it is a release and we actually then move forwards another step!

Really though if you go back over your posts, and wish there were some way for him to see that, things ARE better. You two are making progress. It is just a SLOW process.

Didn't get in that shape overnight and not going to heal overnight. Although I WISH it would!

Here is hoping your evening goes well! FUN maybe

[sage]

Hey everyone,

thanks for the great replies! I appreciate all the support for the way that I feel (and reacted) plus some gentle nudging towards reaching out to h.

I did send him an ecard apology after reading LL's and Caz's posts. It was one of those interactive ones where you try to get tarzan onto a vine -- if you miss, he falls and a tiger comes and carries him away. I said something like "I'm sorry my timing was so bad the other night. I'm truly sorry for many of the things that I said and did".

I AM sorry. I know that I behaved badly in many ways (timing, pulling out the suitcase, calling ow his "lover"). I don't think it's out of line for me to want some discussion around what's going on for us now. ugh. arggh.

blech.

I doubt that he will be responsive to the apology but that's ok with me right now. I need some time too -- and the apology wasn't about expectations anyway.

Sage

[talitsa]

On the one hand, I feel like at this point, it should be ok for me to ask for reassurance re. ow and our m. and NOT have to deal with D talk and anger and whatever. On the other hand, I'm mad at myself for doing "more of the same" -- not just focusing on the great stuff that h. IS doing, needing reassurance, mistrusting, etc. I wish that I could have pushed thru this on my own but I just couldn't, I don't know why.

You were right about our situations and issues being so similar. I sure can relate.

What I was asking for the other day was some SIGN that he could take a step towards me. I don't think I can make this big, giant, scary, alligator infested leap alone. I need him to lean over and reach out his hand -- maybe risking getting bitten himself -- to help me along.

Exactly. Can you tell him that?

what is so clearly FEAR in my mind looks like something completely different in h's.

Can you tell him that you are terrified when you are terrified so he can learn to know the difference?

I want to ask him to read "after the affair" (I won't). I want to let him know how much I want his love and our m.

Why don't you?

Look Sage, I think I'm having an epiphany of sorts here and may have found something that works in my sitch. H has a view of me being independent (don't need him, don't really love or like him, why do I even keep him around). I'm finding better results when I let down my guard and show him that I'm feeling small and terrified when I feel that way and tell him what I need to hear for reassurance.

H called during my lunch break to ask how my day was going (no mention of our annaversary). I couldn't help it, I burst into tears--true blubbering and thank God I was alone in my office! I must have sounded like a little kid, snuffeling and telling him how afraid I was that he wasn't ever coming back/maybe he was still seeing her/that he was still eyeing the escape hatch/that I loved him so much and was so afraid that I was losing him!

We hung up and he called back not more than five minutes later. Said, "I'm not going to bail on you! Even when it's tough or we argue or don't communicate well, I'm not going to give up and abandon you! I'm not staying away as a punishment, I'm taking a time-out to get my s**t together so I won't do anything more to hurt you"!

OK, maybe this isn't exactly great DBing techniques on my part (except maybe I'm doing a great big 180). It sure isn't in line with anything I learned growing up about women being strong and independent. Right now, I feel like a scared and hurt little girl and when I show on the outside what I feel on the inside--H gets it and responds. Not only did he respond with the reassurance that I want, but was acting out-and-out protective.

Now he's not acting like I'm the tough, "controlling" woman demanding something that he'll be damned if he'll comply with. Now he's the big strong man acting like a hero and being protective because I'm really showing that I feel weak and vulnerable and afraid. Hmmmmm.....ok.

Part of me feels like I'm betraying all the women before me who worked so hard not to be seen as the "weaker sex" who needs a man to take care of them. Right now I don't care about that. If I have to do the first Native American woman's Marilyn Monroe impersonation to save my M, I'll do it!

[shinybear]

Awesome post Tal!

I'm seeing some similarities with my sitch too. I've been perceived as controlling, sarcastic and angry, heck I PROJECTED all of those things, probably DAILY for most of our marriage.

When H would point them out, I'd shrug it off "That's just how I am, that's how my Mom is...get over it". NOT!!!! I eroded my H's very spirit.

Yet it's SO true that beneath it all was FEAR and Anxiety. I too notice that when I am more vulnerable, H responds with more caring. Tal, to HELL with this image of the "strong self-sufficient woman". We ALL, men and women alike, need others to lean on. That is NOT weakness, it's human nature. It's what helps us get through this life.

And if "blubbering" on the phone was a 180 for you, the all the more good! LET your H know how much you need and want him. My H was SURE that I didn't love him, he even suspected that I'd cheated on him!!!

We're all learning a great deal about HOW to love each other, and I want to thank all of you for the insights and struggles that help me along MY way.


Sage (sorry! rather forgot it was YOUR thread there for a minute! ), I STILL think that wanting reassurance is NOT a bad thing, not a flaw. Perhaps it is HOW it's broached?

And I'll agree with, I think it was LL, in that these "set backs" are often gifts in disguise. I felt I NEEDED our second last blow out...I could feel resentment building up and HAD to get some things off of my chest.

The result: a lot of reassurance for me from CJ and some positive steps forward. I know it's hard to see them in the midst of the pain, but they are there.

I just wish your H weren't so HARD on you for being human! It must hurt like hell to feel that your doubts and vulnerabilities are being held over your head as evidence that "nothing is ever enough for you". That's the feeling I get from your H's responses.

I mean to bring up D after voicing your lingering doubts! That's blackmail! That's denying you the right to heal in your own time.

Sage, have you ever thought of printing out some posts from the BB for your H to read?

Okay, on I ramble: Someone also mentioned that our H's sometimes misread our expressions and moods. Very true. Just last night after having my advances turned down, I was HURT, I felt REJECTED and unwanted. Yes I stomped away, but H percieved only ANGER in me, he ofted accuses me of being "pissed off" at him, when what I'm really feeling is hurt.

Okay I think I'd better post this now before I forget whose thread it is again.

(((((Sage)))))

Shiny
Shiny