And the day came ...

[holdingon]

Excuse me, who HAD the affair??? You? I thought it was your H. Dbing or no, WE have feelings. I know we aren't supposed to act on our feelings, we are supposed to be these stoic people that act as if things are fabulous. In the meantime, the people that we shared every detail of our lives with, had children with, planned a future with, went out and broke every promise they made with us and left us broken in the floor while they were being intimate with someone else. How does this become our fault??

My H is screaming at me tonight, calling me names, giving me the finger because nurses are finding out about his A because my best friend is a nurse and I told her. OOPS, sorry, but GEE if you had not had the affair, would anyone be finding out about it???

I don't care, Sage, sometimes we just have to be the women we are. We just have to hurt. We just want to be held, loved, like they promised they would. This being strong, invincible all the time is just too hard.

Cry, honey. Because tomorrow you are going to have to stand tall and try to put things back like they were... hopefully, you'll be joined in the effort by your H, but as you know, NO expectations.

[shinybear]

Oh, Crap Sage!!!

But I must say this stuff does happen. I just wish your H was a little kinder in dealing with your feelings. Jeesh!

Has he read "After the Affair"? or am I correct in remembering that he's not 'big" on the self-help stuff? Bloody #$@%&***!

I know that helped my H see that at times I NEED to ask about her, about them. In fact he WANTS me to bring it up when it bothers me. I SOOO wish the same for you.

Why did he get SOOO defensive? And what's with the D talk? Was he being sarcastic? Was he "fed up" that you "still don't trust him 100%"? Your boy needs a reality check, Sage.

Sure he's been showing you love, doing things, and that's all good. Does he think that should be enough? Like he doesn't need to reassure you now and again, and maybe again. Hell this is HARD to heal from!

I'm really mad that he threw the D thing in your face. How unkind and selfish. And he really DIDN'T answer your question at first did he? Why in God's name would he say "she's not the only one who e-mails me"

His idea of a joke? A nice sharp dagger to pierce Sage's fragile heart? Can you send him over here so I can slap him upside the head a few times???

Okay, now to play my role as devil's advocate. He is probably sick and tired of you suspecting him of being in contact with her. Ok, legitimate. But you know what? Your healing is on YOUR timetable, not HIS!

Is he going to have to put up with more of this kind of stuff as you heal, most likely yes. So maybe he needs a more constructive way of dealing with you in these moments.

He's turning it around on him: my wife doesn't trust me, poor me, I'm doing XYZ and it's still not enough, poor me, I can't even check my e-mail (which is how I had my EA) without her being bugged, poor me!

What about YOU?

I know I said it before but I really hate him brining up D. He sounds like a giant baby. "Well if I can't have my way, I don't want it at all".

Talk about jumping to conclusions"! Sure CJ felt bummed to learn that I still have doubts, still don't trust him fully, but he didn't run for the door!

Oh Sage, it's late and I'm starting to ramble. Will check back in tomorrow.

(((((SAGE)))))

Shiny

[lostlove]

well I had written a long response but somehow lost it...probably for the better.

first off hugs to you sage!!

now...

calm down...

honestly...what happend last night...no biggie..I've had far far far far worse happen here I've said let's be done with h...h has said let's be done with it...and obviously we aint done with it yet! things are often said in anger and frustration that aren't really meant...think about it what purpose does throwing your hands up in the air really serve?? but when your frustrated and feel like there is nothing you can do your hand seemingly automatically just go up in the air.

sage, she isn't the only person who e-mails him...she never was the only person who e-mails him...that doesn't mean that she still emails him...just means there are other people who e-mail him besides her...now the use of wording wasn't the greatest.

the fact that he sleeps seemignly peacefully while you stay up and cry...oh ya been there done that too...just because they sleep doesn't mean all is pretty nice nice in their minds...just means they shut down and go to sleep.

seems like you and h are able to talk about most things...but the ow topic still seems to bring up defensiveness...I went through the same thing and it only seems recent that I've been able to mention her and ask without him getting defensive...maybe it comes when you get closer to letting go of the ow really letting go of it...then they (the h's) don't feel as attacked (that isn't even the right word) or the bad for causing you this pain...so they are able to answer without being defensive.

sage,

don't think all is lost...it certainly isn't...this is just one part of the puzzle you and h are going to have to work on...and not necessarily together.

LL

[sage]

holdingon,

Thanks so much for your reply. You were like a positive voice in the darkness last night!

Sorry your h. is being such a dolt.

Sage

[sage]

Hi SB -- Can I just say that I feel you standing squarely in my corner? 'tis a very nice feeling.

Has he read "After the Affair"? or am I correct in remembering that he's not 'big" on the self-help stuff? Bloody #$@%&***!

My h. read a book about affairs and their aftermath? whooo! That's a funny one. He wouldn't even talk about the Five Love Languages book (certainly wouldn't read it!) so I don't think ATA is gonna make its way into his hot little hands.

Why did he get SOOO defensive? And what's with the D talk? Was he being sarcastic? Was he "fed up" that you "still don't trust him 100%"? Your boy needs a reality check, Sage.

i don't know, i don't know, i don't know. It was definitely the extreme of our crappiness -- me asking for reassurance (in what was no doubt a judgemental way), cloaked in a shroud of mistrust which will just send him WAY back to his corner. blech.

I'm really mad that he threw the D thing in your face. How unkind and selfish. And he really DIDN'T answer your question at first did he? Why in God's name would he say "she's not the only one who e-mails me"

Yah -- me too on the D. Maybe it was for effect. Maybe he wants one still. Maybe he was just figuring "this isn't getting better" or maybe his was thinking "I'm not able to fix this for her so why not get out". As for the "emails" thing -- well, it was a) just bad wording b) a cruel joke or c) a Freudian slip. I don't think I'll be asking anytime soon which.

His idea of a joke? A nice sharp dagger to pierce Sage's fragile heart? Can you send him over here so I can slap him upside the head a few times???

Yup. He's on his way!

Okay, now to play my role as devil's advocate. He is probably sick and tired of you suspecting him of being in contact with her. Ok, legitimate. But you know what? Your healing is on YOUR timetable, not HIS!

I know this. I'm sure this stinks for him, too. I stupidly hoped that we could get through this together.

Is he going to have to put up with more of this kind of stuff as you heal, most likely yes. So maybe he needs a more constructive way of dealing with you in these moments.

Well, actually, I'm gonna walk thru fire to make sure that he doesn't deal with this again. I'm off the horse and not getting back on again in terms of expecting reassurance from him. Now I just need to figure out if I want to be married to someone who can't deal with this sort of thing...

He's turning it around on him: my wife doesn't trust me, poor me, I'm doing XYZ and it's still not enough, poor me, I can't even check my e-mail (which is how I had my EA) without her being bugged, poor me!

This is it in a nutshell, I think. I guess to be fair, we could also add "I'm not sure I can fix this" and possibly even "is she worth the effort".

Thanks again, SB. Your words and support have really helped.

Sage

[sage]

Hey LL,

Thanks for your words of reassurance I know you can relate to what I'm going through so it doubly helps to hear your support and advice.

seems like you and h are able to talk about most things...but the ow topic still seems to bring up defensiveness...I went through the same thing and it only seems recent that I've been able to mention her and ask without him getting defensive...maybe it comes when you get closer to letting go of the ow really letting go of it...then they (the h's) don't feel as attacked (that isn't even the right word) or the bad for causing you this pain...so they are able to answer without being defensive.

Yah. we've made a ton of progress. discussions of ow remain squarely off limits, apparently. I can't believe how "back to square one" this feels. It's what I get, I suppose, for getting impatient and ahead of myself.

don't think all is lost...it certainly isn't...this is just one part of the puzzle you and h are going to have to work on...and not necessarily together.

yah, it's true. I don't think we're gonna solve this one together...least not anytime in the near future.

Sage

[psluke]

Hi Sage,

I am so sorry you had such a rotten evening! I truly hope this morning it is a little better between your H and you. Although I think there is always some residual just sort of bad feelings left inside. Hopefully calmer minds prevail!

Just throwing out a couple of thoughts, probably nothing too helpful as I was a bit shocked to read your post! I thought I was the only one that did the REALLY dumb, emotional crap! Umm. Wasn't calling you dumb but me!

It sounds like your afternoon was good. So a positive.

I think from what I have been reading on your posts lately a bit of these feelings have been building for you and I wonder could you have been tired last night and the feelings just took hold of your logic? I know that my H and I's emotional, sort of dumb scenes almost always happen when I am tired and probably he is also. Usually about bed time! Then of course we get no sleep and we are still tired. Neither of us is too capable at that time of dealing with all the emotions we have, let alone the ones our S have and are sharing! I don't have any good ideas on dealing with any of these feelings but do think when I am tired they are much more likely to come out unconstructively!

I was re-reading in DR last night and a part I guess I wasn't taking to heart was Michelle's instructions to strike when the iron is cold. So if emotions get high for me I can count on pushing H's buttons or doing more of same and not being constructive. Now to figure out what to do when an insecurity is pushed, how to try to do something else till brain works all feelings and emotions through to a more logical thought process? I wish I KNEW the answer to that one.

Ok, I'm definitely running on this morning. I hope something I said makes a little bit of sense! I am probably not thinking clearly at all this whole week!

I have faith from reading your threads that you and H are going to work through this thing and have a great relationship all of the time and not just part of the time!

Hope you have a great day!

PS IT JUST WAS A FULL MOON A DAY OR SO AGO!!!

[sage]

Pam -- Your reply was wonderful and really insightful. It was right on the mark (feelings had been building up, striking while the iron was HOT, etc) and it helped me see something that I had missed...

At some point this week I posted about feeling as though I was (unfairly) looking for some "grand gesture" from h -- something to assure me of his fidelity and love and recommitment to our m. I think the events of last night were me pushing for that....well, I certainly got my gesture but it sure as hell wasn't GRAND!

Part of the problem is that I just don't know how to bring up sensitive subjects to h in a way that doesn't rouse his defensiveness. So I end up doing all the wrong things at all the wrong times and well, you see what happens! Jeannine gave me some great advice on my last thread so I'll definitely pull that out.

There's certainly nothing healing about the way that the events unfolded last night...and so far, the aftermath is dramatically uneventful. I "slept" on the couch (amazing that I'm functioning on 4 hours of sleep!) and didn't talk to h. this AM. I don't expect to hear from him today at all. I'm going out this evening so it'll likely be a long day of no contact.

TBH -- it unnerves me more than a little that the D. word was tossed out there so cavalierly. I guess I had hoped that we had moved passed that point...though apparently not out of the woods yet.

It wouldn't kill me to take a few steps back myself and figure out what I want....

Sage

[lostlove]

There's certainly nothing healing about the way that the events unfolded last night...and so far, the aftermath is dramatically uneventful. I "slept" on the couch (amazing that I'm functioning on 4 hours of sleep!) and didn't talk to h. this AM. I don't expect to hear from him today at all. I'm going out this evening so it'll likely be a long day of no contact.

when events like this occur in my house..I also expect an uneventful day and sometimes week to follow...when I've had time to sit back and think about where my actions (or rather reactions) were comming from...being tired, a build up of bottled feelings, my own insecurities, my expectations of h etc etc etc...

I find that waiting for h to make the first move toward peace often builds more resentment in me...if I know that I am partly responsible for the "fight" even if I am not responsible for the "thing" that we were fighting about...then I can apologize at least for the way I handled things...that opens a door (sometimes) for h to feel more comfortable and know that all is not lost..that we can and will move beyond this little mole hill that his a presents.

LL

[Jeannine]

((((((Sage sweetie))))))

I just read what happened last night. You must feel drained to the core.

I agree with “holdingon” and “shineybear” in their initial reaction to what happened.

You cannot be expected to be superwoman all of the time, and for him to bring the D word into the environment after all the patience you have shown him is weak, weak, weak.

After Shiney gets done slapping him along side the head, send him my way and I’ll show him what a rage filled woman can do with a baseball bat!

How are you supposed to show 100% trust if he keeps the fidelity meter hidden from you?

I agree with what “psluke” said about being tired and dealing with a large emotional issue simultaneously. That combination often leads to explosions and off-the-path behavior. As LL pointed out, it does not necessarily mean all is undone. You both reached critical mass and needed to relieve some of the pressure. The fatigue just created a pathway for the release.

Perhaps your H will need a little time alone in his cave to lick his wounds and to regroup. But, if he has even a small ray of insight as to the amazing woman he married, he WILL come around, and hopefully this time he’ll be more aware of your LEGITIMATE need for assistance in healing from HIS selfishness.

Standing with you,
Jeannine

P.s. How is it that so many men can sleep after something like that happens. That has always bewildered and annoyed me.