And the day came ...

[sage]

Sage, be warned, I am breaking out the 2X4.

Jeez, Jim, thanks for the warning and all but couldn't you have given me a cyber hug instead???

{{{U24}}}

And all I can say about all of that is BULL!! I read about all the wonderful things that are going on between you and your H. How you guys can talk, how he listens, how he wants to spend time with you, how he is going out of his way to do special little things for you. And so I call bull on you.

And I deserve that. You are totally right.

You are jealous of jethro? Do you realize that most of us here would give anything to have 1/100th the opportunities you have right now? You have all these worries and insecurities. Well guess what? Most of us have these same worries and insecurities justified on a daily basis, with their words and actions, and usually in an extremely blunt fashion.

Point also taken. I know that my sitch has progressed well...and is in better form than lots of people's on the boards. I AM grateful. And I AM working hard every day to notice the wonderful stuff around me AND keep my worries and insecurities in check AND DB AND .... you get the point. Thank you for reminding me to stop and smell the roses that I have.

So you need to get with the program. I have been following Jethro's sitch for a long time, back when we were both still in newcomers. There is nothing you are going through that he hasn't gone through before. I see the same slow progress in your sitch that I saw in his. Let's look at the positives.

He has owned up and taken responsiblity for his actions.
He didn't leave you for her.
He is working with you to make your marriage a better thing.
He is showing love to you on a daily basis.

yes.yes.yes.yes.

I will get off my soapbox now, and say that I really think you have so much to be grateful for, if you just sit back and look at things, and not worry so damn much.

2x4 message delivered. I thank you for it!

If my h. were reading this now he'd either be laughing or crying because we're talking about one of the things that he's raised as an issue -- my worries, fears, insecurities,etc.

I DO want to acknowledge, if only for myself, that I think that MANY of my posts on my thread are positive. I think that I HAVE been doing a much better job of calming my own fears, reinforcing h's awesome hard work, etc. Heck, even in the particular post we're talking about I go on and on about KNOWING that I'm making this harder on myself, ignoring what progress we made,etc.

I'm trying. and sometimes I'm succeeding.

Sage

[Jeannine]

I DO want to acknowledge, if only for myself, that I think that MANY of my posts on my thread are positive. I think that I HAVE been doing a much better job of calming my own fears, reinforcing h's awesome hard work, etc. Heck, even in the particular post we're talking about I go on and on about KNOWING that I'm making this harder on myself, ignoring what progress we made,etc.

I'm trying. and sometimes I'm succeeding.

Absolutely! You continue to impress the heck out of me. You are one of the most positive people I've had the privelge to follow over these past months.

Jeannine

[Umbrella24]

I DO want to acknowledge, if only for myself, that I think that MANY of my posts on my thread are positive. I think that I HAVE been doing a much better job of calming my own fears, reinforcing h's awesome hard work, etc. Heck, even in the particular post we're talking about I go on and on about KNOWING that I'm making this harder on myself, ignoring what progress we made,etc.

And to be fair, that is generally true. So ask yourself, when you are being positive, and seeing the good changes you have made, aren't you generally happier? Sage, the guy is trying, you are trying, and sometimes, I wonder if you are just too smart for your own good. As an EE also, I know how we have a tendency to analyze things to death, and probably in situations where we shouldn't. I don't think it's a coincedence that the first four letters of analyze are anal.

And actually, I came back to apologize. I was a bit cranky when I checked your thread, and just not feeling real sympathetic, so for whatever reason, when I saw you feeling a little sorry for yourself, I just didn't see it that way. I need to realize that your situation presents a whole slew of different problems than mine, and since I am not in that situation, I don't understand. So I apologize for bursting in here after a prolonged absence with a flamethrower.

Jeez, Jim, thanks for the warning and all but couldn't you have given me a cyber hug instead???

Much better idea.

{{Sage}}

[nikatnight]

Sage,

I agree with everyone. I think it goes back to "act as if" everything were great. Would you rather be around a confident and secure person or a insecure and needy person???

I have a favor to ask. Could you look at my thread on the newcomers board and let me know what you think? You had offered me good advice when I started the board and I wanted to know what you thought now. Thanks, NIK

[sage]

Just journalling ...

Good things that happened yesterday:
1. Did yoga for a while after I got home and while I was doing it, I heard h. out in the kitchen making himself dinner. when I was done, went out there and he had made ME a plate of food, too. This was SO sweet and a big deal in a couple of ways -- just sheer niceness + his confidence that he could/would make me something that I would be happy about. Good stuff.

2. h. and I had a good talk about his school and some stuff that came in the mail for him. I really like that he's talking with me about what's going on for him...

3. h. did a ton of work on the "office" room in the house.

What didn't go well:
Just my own crud -- h. went off to check his email last night and my heart did a double flip. THEn I felt bad about feeling bad...gotta get off this ride that I've put myself on!

************
I need some new goals. I need time to think of them and write them down. Goal #1: make new goals.

Sage

[charcoal]

((((((sage))))))


just wanted to add that TODAY - H wants to be with you
if he REALLY didn't, he wouldn't
string enough of those days in a row and whaddaya got???

a life shared








take care

[sage]

Quoted from another thread:

Come on, you know what "that feeling" is. It's that feeling you get when someone loves you, is interested in you, wants to learn about you, appreciates all you do for them, is vunerable to you, and sometimes most important, would NEVER even think of stepping on any of the gifts of your time and presence to them.

H's needs weren't getting met all along. No way. He wouldn't have left if they were. Besides, you were a legless-WAW, how could you possibly have been giving H that loving feeling. I know I'd be kidding myself if I thought I was filling H's needs all along. H doesn't want to help you figure out how to meet his needs, at least that's what I'm getting. My H has the luxury of coming here and reading my rants and responding to them later. You don't get that window into H's mind, so you have to keep trying different things, maybe?

What if you could ask what H liked so much about OW and he could answer you knowing it wouldn't hurt your feelings? Is he safe when he talks? I mean, he's already hurt you so much, any more guilt would be almost unbearable, right? Why would he tell you anything about OW if it's gonna piss you off? Because you want him too? No way. Sorry, it wont happen.

I've reposted this here because it's real food for thought for me...Over the last 7 months, I think I've learned a lot about myself and some of the things that I did to damage our m.

It has not been an easy path -- not because I'm not interested in looking at myself and my foibles (perhaps I spend TOO much time there!) but because there are times when it feels like forensic work...piecing (oops! no pun) together "clues" about what I've done wrong and what I've done right. H's answer to the direct question ... what did I do that led to your a? is "nothing". OK -- so perhaps that's just h. taking full responsibility for the decision to go outside the m....perhaps a better question ... what did I do to make you think our m. was "over"? (as he has stated). His answer? "You were so angry all the time."

So...here are some of the things that I've learned....

Things that likely contributed to the breakdown:

1. my anger (over my needs not being met? over having some picture in my head? over past stuff? over being afraid?)

2. putting m. behind all other things (family, work, volunteer job, etc)

3. not listening attentively when h. talked (reading, being on computer, tv, etc)

4. not appreciating the things that h. did around the house

5. trying to control all decisions (did this out of fear? sense of superiority?)

6. not trusting h. (resulting from early conviction that men cheat then leave + my need for more details re. his life than he was willing to share)

7. not accepting h. for who he is today (partly lack of appreciation, partly not meeting the "picture in my head", partly my drive for control, etc)

8. not letting h. really love me, really "get" to me (fear. fear. fear.)

9. (maybe) not acting as though having a family together was something I wanted to do (for a while it just seemed like the wrong time, then it was putting everything else first, then it was that he didn't seem truly interested in ME)

10. not managing my reactions well to h.'s disclosures about himself (stuff that scared me, need for control)

11. overanalyzing everything (this list doesn't count! )

12. not being "fun", being too "grown-up" (because I thought I was the only adult one in the r.)

13. never dropping the rope and letting h. pick it up

14. not being directly CLEAR about what I want -- and let his reaction NOT bug me

15. setting boundaries in the wrong places -- I tried to control his behaviors instead of just letting him know clearly what my response would be

16. making him feel like a bad husband, not grown up enough, not responsible enough, not anything enough. a bad risk.

17. not making an attempt to be interested in some of the things that interest him

18. being a big giant baby when I didn't get my way.

19. always wanting my way.

20. making is seem like "his way" was almost right...but with this slight "my way" edit.

21. not seeing his romantic side. not seeing his vulnerable side.

22. being a naysayer (either directly or through silence) -- not being a cheerleader for his dreams and goals (fear, fear, fear. need for control)

23. letting this fester than blowing up.

24. making my fears, my insecurities, etc, seem like his problem

25. simply not appreciating everything that he offered every day.

I'm not trying to be doom and gloom here...I'm gonna use this list to come up with some goals/actions.

Sage

[sage]

Forgot a couple ...

26. Interpreting his "moods" and "silences" instead of just letting him be.

27. Not standing up for myself with him -- in a respectful way (to either of us)

28. being indirect about what I wanted (I might have already said this)

Sage

[kml]

Sage -
I didn't know you were my twin!
Ellie

[sage]

Well, screwed up bigtime tonight. The good news is that it's been 3 months since I've actually brought up the ow with h. The bad news is that the clock starts again tonight.

My new mantra is that 4 drinks are bad. OK, they weren't huge drinks but apparently that's enough for me to drop all of my good intentions and screw things up.

we went to dinner for a belated bday celebration. I made some stupid (but pointed) reference about hoping that the next year was better because the last year sucked. This was after h. made a perfectly lovely toast about loving me and all kinds of good stuff (NOT RIGHT after, people! I'm a better DB'er than that! it was like 2 hours after!)

Anyway, on the way back to the car I apologized for the comment. h apologized for his "contribution to the last year sucking".

I said "so, are things sort of straightened out?" . h said "yes" then "well, what do you mean"

I said "well, I left it general enough for you to answer any way you want". He gave a quick laugh then said (not terribly enthusiastically) "yes, I think so".

THEN, I said "well, I hope you'll forgive me given that it's my birthday and all but I'm still really struggling with the thought that you and ow are still in contact. I don't want you to answer now or anything but it just tears me up inside and I guess I was hoping that you could think of someways to help with that" or something.

no comment.

no comment on the way home.

thus endeth the story of my screw-up.

Any guesses? last time I brought this up, he withdrew for about a month.

Honestly? You can all pull out the 2x4s (I expect you too!) but at 7+ months I'd like to think that we could have some sort of conversation about this without totally derailing us.

Either they're still in contact and they don't think it's a problem -- but I do.

or, they're still in contact and they KNOW it's a problem (and I do)

or, they're not in contact and I HAVE a problem and maybe, just maybe, I could use some help with that.

or, I'm just a total idiot who just screwed up everything.

Sage