You haven't been a pain-in-the-ass. You've simply been afraid of doing the hard things that need to be done, in my opinion. That's understandable -- it's damned hard.
I don't believe for a minute that your wife is done with OM. She is very likely either lying to you about that (remember -- all cheaters lie), or she has temporarily broken it off with him (or, more likely, he has broken it off with HER). Separations rarely lead to reconciliation, and the problem is, you will not have an opportunity to "live the new Lynn" in front of her on a daily basis, and shine a light back to your marriage.
My suggestion would be to tell your wife that you don't want a divorce OR a separation, but that you can't stop her from doing what she feels she needs to do. I also think you should expose her affair to both immediate families, so that maybe those that are supportive of the marriage can exert some influence on her.
WHATEVER you do, get some good legal advice, and make sure that YOU are not the one to leave the house. If she had (is having?) an affair, and "needs space," let HER move out.
Lynn, Dude... slow down. Time to regroup. Re-read DB or DR. You are spending way too much valuable time trying to pin down a moving target. MLC? Are you kidding? I would accept identity crisis maybe but not Mid life. Stop trying to put your current circumstances into a neat little box with a label on it. Go piss in the wind for the same result. You say you do not want to be divorced and if you really feel that way don't bring it up, least of all to her. Surely you know what a self fulfilling prophecy is.
Get back up on that mountain of yours and focus on YOU. While up there imagine the time line of Lynn on the horizon. Find the spot where YOU went off the tracks. The sooner you can get yourself grounded the sooner you can make effective changes that will attract her back to you. It is simple after all. You are desperately searching for the key piece of the puzzle you just forgot to look in the mirror.
Whether it's an identity crisis or a MLC it's still a crisis and it does factor into what's happening now. She wants to be independant, prove she can live on her own etc. I think if she can get through this she will be a stronger person for it.
As for the EA. I think it is done for now, but I'm not that naive to think it's completely over. I hope she can resist temptation to run to him, but if not it's her call.
Let's play this out a little bit. If I tell her I don't want a divorce or a separation she would say. "I need some space, if you're not willing to give me that space then you don't respect me and I want a divorce". Then I'll say no I'm not giving you a divorce either, I want to work it out. She'll say "I'm not ready for that yet. I need space to fix myself and I can't do that while trying to work on us to." And we could go back and forth for hours.
So when I look at that I like that I'm doing a 180 and standing up to fight for what I believe in, which is good. But I don't like that I'm not respecting her wishes and "lovingly detaching" like MB suggests. So I am torn. I think this approach will push her away from me more won't it?
I also have learned one thing during my DB'ing. The one thing that has worked so far is active listening. Listen to her, validate, and keep my opinions to myself. The times we do this we both feel better and she even starts to "be with me" again. Of course after these evenings she retracts and wants her space which I know is the normal script.
She has offered to let me move back in and stay in the extra bedroom. I believe that this would be good to be around her to show her "the new Lynn", but I don't think I'm ready for that yet. I can't handle being around her without going all "melty man" at times. I have to be prepared not to do that and right now I'm not.
I just feel like I'm being pulled in multiple direction and don't know what to do.
Lynn
Last edited by lynn97; 06/23/0805:00 PM.
ME: 37 W: 32 S11 D6 Together: 14 yrs. Married: 12 yrs. Previous PA: 8 yrs. ago Previous EA: 1 yr ago
I'm afraid you're just not getting it. You continue to define what's "working" as what "makes you feel good."
You also don't like that you're "not respecting her wishes," when her "wishes" are to have an extramarital affair.
Until you are more concerned with doing the right thing and fighting for your marriage than you are for what either "feels good" or "doesn't upset your wife," you have almost no chance. Yes, God Himself could intervene, and your wayward wife could suddenly have an epiphany and come to her senses, but that's rare, and you will still have to deal with the collateral damage of her additional loss of respect for you and how you handled things.
Until you are more concerned with doing the right thing and fighting for your marriage than you are for what either "feels good" or "doesn't upset your wife," you have almost no chance.
So what would you do at this point? Kick her out of the house? Tell her I want to save our marriage while you seem to want to destroy it?
Lynn
ME: 37 W: 32 S11 D6 Together: 14 yrs. Married: 12 yrs. Previous PA: 8 yrs. ago Previous EA: 1 yr ago
Until you are more concerned with doing the right thing and fighting for your marriage than you are for what either "feels good" or "doesn't upset your wife," you have almost no chance.
So what would you do at this point? Kick her out of the house? Tell her I want to save our marriage while you seem to want to destroy it?
Lynn
Lynn, I'd suggest you read Hope4Us' threads, and learn. Then figure out what you REALLY want to do, and come back and ask us all some specific questions.
I don't think you're there yet. Not picking on you, but I just don't.
lynn97, I want to address how I handled my kid along with seperation and Divorce. Once I realized there was no stopping the divorce train I took my daughter every weekend for a year and a half. She was only three at the time and I felt that since her mother was dating and off having a good time that I would step up and be the grounded parent. That is the best thing I ever did. I can't say that my daughter has not been affected by the divorce and to what extent but anything you can do to sheild them from it is the right thing to do.
I read both Hope and you're story Pup and I got to say I admire you guys. I can see that this may be a long road and I'm going to have to muster up more strength and courage than I ever had before.
What do I want to do - Save this marriage
It's the steps to doing that that are the fuzzy part. Here is a letter I got from WW today (long letter ahead):
----- "LIVING ARRANGEMENTS I really feel that it is in the best interest of the kids and for our finical stability that you move back into the house during this time. You know my concerns about our dirty laundry being aired in other people’s houses and I would really be more comfortable if we were dealing with things in our own home. I also believe that a lot of the issues the kids are having would be much either for them to deal with if we can provide them with a sense of normality in terms of you being here for them again and stability in showing them that we are still both their parents and will care for them just as we always have.
So I’d like to propose that you move back into the house and we maintain our separate space. That we work together to parent the children and work on providing stability and support for them.
I know you like to try to think of all the angles so I was up till 2am last night mulling everything over. So far the following are logistics, boundaries and concerns that I thought would need to be addressed, please feel free to add to these if you think of something I have forgotten:
Personal Space: In order to maintain boundaries I believe that we should each have our own personal space within the house. For me this could be the bedroom, for you the office (or visa-versa). We would respect each other’s personal spaces and not intrude on each other’s privacy. If you chose to take the office, I think we should move the big computer and the treadmill into the living room so that I can still use them daily without having to invade your space.
Parenting: We could maintain the same schedule we currently have with the kids, but instead of focusing more on who’s going to take the kids, redirect our focus to be, who’s going to have time to themselves. Maybe that way we won’t feel like one of us needs to leave the house or that we have to take the kids somewhere. I think this would also provide a sense of stability for the children instead of them always wondering when each of us will be coming or going. So for example, since Monday and Thursday nights have been my nights with the kids, those would be the evenings that you would take as your personal time. You would be welcome to go out or stay in the house and that would be completely your call. Those would be your nights to do as choose because you know that I will be taking care of the children for that night. I also think that’s it important not to put time limits or curfews on each other. I don’t think we should expect to know what time the other we will be home because we’ll be living independent lives. As long as the children are cared for, I don’t think it should really matter. Although if one of us is not going to be returning home at all that evening, I think a call or a text is in order simply so the other one knows that they will be caring for the children in the morning. I believe that when we are both here (as long as it doesn’t interfere with anyone’s plans or personal time) that we should share parenting with the children. Meaning if we are both home, we support each other in providing for the kids much as we did before. I think this will show the children that we are still a united front when it comes to dealing with them and I believe that’s incredibly important to their sense of stability and well-being.
Dinners: I think that dinner throughout the week should be provided by the person whose day it is with the kids as it should be their responsibility to feed the kids. If one of us has made dinner and would like to offer the other to join the kids in sharing a meal, I think that is perfectly acceptable. It will be up to the parent who’s got the evening off to decide if they want to or if they have other plans. If one of us is preparing a meal, I think it’s perfectly acceptable to ask ahead of time if the other will be home and would like to have dinner so that we know how much food to prepare. Same goes with meals on the weekends.
Evenings: Part of the reason I think this plan will work is that so neither of us feels that we are kicked out of the house on the nights we have off. However, I know that we talked about night time after the kids go to bed being an issue, so I wanted to address that too. I think that once the kids go to bed, and if we are both home, we will still maintain our separate space and not feel the need to ask what the other one is doing. I however don’t see anything wrong with us doing such things as watching tv in the living room at the same time as long it’s something we’re both comfortable doing.
Household Chores: I think that we should continue to share household chores as we have before with each of us pitching in and doing things as we see it needs done. The only exception to this might be cleaning our own personal spaces (meaning our rooms) and perhaps we might each want to do our own laundry. The kids have so much laundry; I don’t see any reason why we can’t share in doing that as well as things like towels and blankets and things the family uses.
Money: We should continue to pay our bills and support our children and household as before.
Time Frame: I believe that this will be a somewhat temporary solution until I get a job. At that time (be it 3 weeks or 3 months, cause god only knows how long it will take) we can sit down and reevaluate where each of us are in our lives and how would should proceed in terms of our finances and living arrangements.
BOUNDRIES While the above was more focused on the logistics, I think there also needs to be some boundaries established as before. I’ve come up with a few of them, please feel free to add to this list:
1. We will respect each other’s personal space and privacy. 2. Maintain our separate lives and avoid the urge to pump each other for information about such things as where are you going, who was that on the phone. Sharing as friends is perfectly acceptable whenever we feel comfortable doing so. 3.Avoid putting time limits and restrictions on each other’s personal time whenever possible. 4.No sexual contact 5.We will not use the kids as a go-between, a messenger or a spy to gather information about the other. We need to remain a united front in our parenting practices. 6.No discussions of issues (personal, martial, financial or otherwise) in front of the kids. We should either take those outside as we have been or wait till they go to bed. 7.We need to remain honest and open with each other about how we are feeling in terms of the arrangements, kids, etc.
CONCERNS I know that you have some definite concerns about an arrangement such as this. I have done a lot of thinking about them and feel like I am in good place to make this sort of arrangement work well for both of us. So I’d like to address those concerns that I have seen, and of course please feel free to add any other concerns you may have.
I believe that the biggest concern would be the worry that I would fall back into letting you take care of things or give up on my own personal growth. I feel much stronger now and truly feel that I can still work on those issues even with you living in the house as long as we maintain the logistics and boundaries as established above. I believe that if we can sustain this type of roommate/friend relationship I can still work on my personal issues as can you. If we feel one or the other is falling back into old patterns we should just be honest about that, bring it up in discussion and address those issues as they come up.
One of my concerns is you being comfortable again in the house. I hate you being displaced, I don’t think that’s good for you or for the kids who never know where you are or when you’re coming back. This is your home, I want you to feel comfortable here and I think as long as we are maintaining our arrangements and boundaries I believe you can feel comfortable being here again in time. After all we’ve lived here for years now and I think the only reason you feel uncomfortable is because of me, that’s something I think we can definitely work on.
Another concern that I feel needs to be addressed is that we both tend to get a cloudy-minded around the other. Again I think maintaining the arrangements and boundaries will help with that as well as going into the situation with the mindset that we are friends, sharing the responsibility of the care for our children and sharing a communal space while we work on ourselves and are not using this is opportunity to try and work on any martial issues. I don’t see any reason, as long as we remain open and honest that this can’t work for both of us."
----- Notice how it says we won't work on us. And I guess I don't expect her to be ready to work on us, but I don't think I can move back into that house under these conditions. The time frame one really bugs me. I might if she also agreed to:
1. no dating anyone or contact with OM, including NC letter and everything (she said she already did this but who's to say)
2. Some offer to work on us, maybe just go to joint marriage therapist, we need to at least talk about our issues with a professional.
So I could use you're guys advice. My gut is telling me this is a bad idea, but my head is telling me it may help her see my improvement...if she can see anything at all since the fog will be there for quite some time. But it probably would be best for the kids.
Lynn
Last edited by lynn97; 06/23/0810:54 PM.
ME: 37 W: 32 S11 D6 Together: 14 yrs. Married: 12 yrs. Previous PA: 8 yrs. ago Previous EA: 1 yr ago
Your wife's letter is laughable, and chock full of ENTITLEMENT. Seriously, my jaw is dropped, altho it shouldn't be -- it's all AFFAIR SCRIPT.
Have you responded to it yet? I'd like to help you, but need to get some chicken on the grill. Can I take a crack at it later? For now, just reply "Thanks for sending. I will respond very soon."
