Learned a few things today that validated some thoughts and feelings I've had.
I was talking to a friend of mine last night for a couple of hours. She is a good friend of both I and my wife. We ended up talking about the relationship and my w. This conversation was not staged by me or my wife. This is a really good friend who we've both known for a very long time. She knows all about our problems and she does not take sides. I guess my wife and I both lean on her from time to time. She called because she had a problem with her car and we ended up talking. She goes out with my wife a lot and talks to her all the time. Anyway...
She basically told me from things that she has seen and talks she has had with my wife that my wife needs space because she is too stressed out with me here. She feels angrier because she asked repeatedly to do ONE thing FOR HER, which is to move out and I'm still here so that really just keeps her in anger/divorce mode. She said it would be impossible for her to reconcile because she is just staying in this stress/anger mode.
She said that she has talked to my wife about our relationship plenty of times in depth and she said her current state is a big part of the problem. She does not want to see any reason because she is angry and resentful. This woman knows about my hypo and she knows the exact problem and tried to help my wife see it for the problem it is, but she does not trust it because of past episodes, which is totally understandable. (Note - I did not ask or tell this friend to talk to my wife or anything like that. Just wanted to be clear on that)
She agrees with me, agrees with my doctor and nutritionist that the problem and the last setback that occurred was a direct result of the hypo and allergy. She tried to explain it to my wife too and even tried to show her how it was different from any of the episodes that happened in the past, but wife is too upset/angry right now to see any kind of logic. She said she is having too many up and down emotions and said my wife probably wants divorce because she does not want to deal with any more problems and is tired of it all. She is having problems getting past the past and me being here just keeps all of those past thoughts and resentments right in her focus at all times so it's impossible for her to "unstress" and think clearly.
This is why I as well as her( friend) think it would be best for both of us if I move out. If I stay her how can we possibly move forward because my wife will just be kept in this anger/resentment mode?
She's told me that my wife tells her all the time how much she loves me, but when we fight she gets into the "not the same kind of love" mode. My friend validated to me that my wife gets like this when we have problems. She also validated to me that when my wife and I are clicking and getting along that she is a totally different person. As recently as two months ago she was telling our friend how close we were getting again and how great it was because of how good our relationship was and well I was doing. The hypo crash is what basically come into the picture and screwed everything up. My wife shut right down after that and turned to divorce mode and distance mode pretty much instantly. In this mode she digs up a lot of stuff from the past and she told my friend that she was feeling unwanted. Some of the feelings she expressed where:
(Guys should especially pay attention here because women rely on their feelings.)
- Feeling unwanted - Not feeling sexy - Feeling like she could not come to me for emotional support - Feeling like I did not go to her for emotional support - Feeling resentment - Feeling unloved - Feeling like she's not "in love" with me - No self esteem - Stressed - Not feeling happy
Now, I actually feel pretty good after having that conversation because for one, it validates that my wife is still very much in love with me and validates why she is constantly stuck in anger/resentment. And two... it also confirms to me what I need to do to fix the problem.
I know that I'm still the same person she fell in love with and married... I just had a problem pop up that got in the way. I'm a good guy, selfless and have a heart of gold. That in itself helps me know that moving out is the right thing to do for her in this particular situation.
Learn a lesson from the past -
When I moved out months ago it was a similar situation. My wife was stressed, angry, resentful and could not think clearly. She was driven by all these negative emotions, which prevented any positive emotions from shining through no mater what I said or did. She was clouded with negativity. My friend and I were also talking about this and she saw the exact same patterns in her then. It was identical to what she is doing now. The same kind of talk and the same kind of feelings about being scared to get close and trusting as well as the above feelings I listed.
What got my wife to change last time?
I moved out and gave her space. It took about a month, but she came around eventually and started talking to me and we worked it out after she saw how well I was doing.
At that time I was not aware of DB or DR so as you can imagine I did the whole pleading and clingy crap and that just pushed my wife into divorce mode even though we were getting along.
After the pleading I went partially dark for about two weeks and it was very hard, but my wife ended up contacting me. I remember it vividly. I could tell she was upset and she was fishing trying to get answers from me on what I was doing, what plans I had etc. She got into talking about how divorce is the best thing for us and how she just wants to go out and have fun and see other people because they'll make her feel sexy and wanted etc.
(Side Note - I felt she was cynical, spiteful and rude, but the more I think about it, I believe she was saying and acting this way to me to show me flat out the feelings she was having. Why else would she tell me about feeling wanted and sexy by meeting guys etc. She was probably really reaching out to me and saying "Hey knucklehead, LOOK AT ME, THIS IS WHAT I NEED AND HOW I WANT TO FEEL!")
I stuck with my tone and said I was planing on moving and living my life. She got really defensive and angry at me spewing all kinds of stuff trying to push my buttons, but I ended the conversation. A few days later she texted me about something financial, we ended up chatting a bit, it turned sexual and that night I stayed over and we slept together. We ended up having a relationship talk (I know now that was a mistake, but at the time I thought it was what we should do) I suggested going to a marriage workshop and trying to work things out. Now I see how her mood really started changing when the R talk came up and she was immediately getting distant again and talking about how it's not the same, that she wants a divorce etc. I ended up leaving in the morning because she was upset.
IMPORTANT POINT - Every single time relationship talk came up she would go distant and talk about not being "in" love and not feeling the same, she would get down and moody. When there was no relationship talk she pulled me in close, loved me to death and was a pure joy to be around.
*banging into head* NO RELATIONSHIP TALK!!!!!
Later that day this is what she sent me:
- "There are so many things I want to tell you. I know last night was like old times, and I don't want to hurt you. I'm still so very upset. I can't do this I am so scared to get back to this. I am not ready to go to the marriage workshop.
I can't look at you and tell you this because it breaks my heart to see the disappointment on your face. I can't do this again. I called the lawyer about the divorce. That is what I want. I'm so sorry to hurt you. Please don't be mad at me.
Love was never the issue, I do love you and probably always will. The bond we have will always be there. But I need to do what I feel is best and after last night I feel this is the best. I do need to tell you how proud I am of how you are helping your bi polar. You are doing great, I do see the comfy guy again.
Please just spend time with your girls, and If you feel the need to move thats fine, but think it threw first and do it for the right reasons. I can't see you or talk on the phone, It kills me to see you and when you are trying I am being so selfish and not being supportive or there for you.
I will miss you," -
At the time I was devastated to receive that and I ended up replying and trying to do more R talk, which probably hindered some of the progress. I was trying to validate her feelings, but it was more to try and save the relationship. I wish I had the reply I sent because I would post it.I only have what she sent. Here is what she sent back.
- "I'm not sure all of the things I need to tell you. There is just so much that needs to be talked about. My heart has been totally broken when you began talking to someone else about so many things that I wish you would have talked to me about. I still get very upset just thinking about it. I feel a part of me got lost when that happened. I feel so down and have no self esteem.
I know things do seem like we were dating again. That is why I need to take a break and get back to clearing my head. I'm not really sure I even want to be married anymore. For reasons I don't even understand. Things have changed with me starting when my dad died that I seem not to be able to get past. I hope this is not sounding selfish.
If all of this had happened a year or two ago I would be so happy. I always knew you would get the help you needed. I just didn't think it would be when I was so used to doing and handling everything on my own. I wanted to tell you all of this in person, but when I look at you I get very clouded and upset. I don't want to hurt you at all.
I think our lives had become so routine. I wonder if we stayed together for the girls. Then I think if we truly loved each other neither of us would have went to other people. Who's to say it won't happen again. I am very scared it could. Well I have a ton more [censored] I would like to say but drawing a blank now." -
Note: I did not have an affair, she was stuck on that idea for a while because she was jealous and upset that I was talking to an old friend. There was absolutely nothing at all going on between us, but my wife did not believe it. Now, she told me she DID have an affair. Although she said it was not sexual and I believe her. Once we got back together we told each other that we would not talk to these people any longer. I didn't, but I'm not sure if she is still talking to her friend or not. I think she is.
After that last reply I sent her another email telling her that I was not having any kind of affair and that she was taking it the wrong way. I recommitted myself to her, got into some more relationship talk and that was it.
She ended up picking me up that night and we again got into more relationship talk and that is when she admitted to me to having and EA. I forgave her and told her I understood exactly why it happened. We held each other for a while without saying much and later that night ended up sleeping together. We both committed to each other that we would not talk to anyone else and would come to each other instead. The next day she went out with some friends and got a little drunk. She ended up pouring her heart out to me. Saying how deep her love was, that she did not want a divorce that we belong together as a family and I belong there etc. I moved back in the next day. -
Now about the current situation. As you can see it parallels the last time expect she seems to be more stubborn now, but I'm still in the house, which probably explains a lot of the moods she is in.
I'm hoping that I can sort of repeat what I did last time except with a new outlook thanks to DB and DR and this support forum. I know when to skip the R talk and now know the kinds of emotions and feelings she is dealing with and why. I think I'm a lot smarter in terms of the problems now then I was then and of course I am also able to control the hypo problem.
I'm so glad our friend is there for us, because she really helped me understand my wives current feelings, emotional outlook etc.
My friend said that she will talk to her again when she is in a better frame of mind about the hypo and how the episodes where a direct result of it. She basically said every time they go out my wife will talk about us anyway both positively and negatively, so I know it's constantly on her mind no matter how well she hides it around me.
Women are much better than men at hiding their emotions and that is really tough because we never know what they are doing or thinking.
PLAN
So now my current plan is to move out tomorrow. I don't plan on getting into a relationship talk with her, I'll just move some of mystuff out and tell her that she can go back to the bedroom because I'm staying somewhere else.
QUESTIONS:
Do you think I should use the last resort technique now when I move out, should I go dark or not? Should I just wait for her to contact me about something and just basically ignore her now so she has tons of space?
I now I'm definitely going to need help on validating and when the inevitable R talks come up. I have a good idea for another thread on validation so I'll post that in a bit.
FEELINGS
I do admit i am battling with some rough emotions internally now. I guess some of it is fear of loss thinking that if I move out now, she is just going to move on. i guess everyone goes through these internal mind battles. I think that's why I prolonged moving out... I was scared that "this is it" if I go, but in reality I'm making it worse by NOT going.
Arrgg, this really sucks. I have to stop beating myself up about it.
DIET/MOOD CHANGES As far as diet and changes I have made. I am not worried about them at all. I'm already accustomed to the diet and I have zero cravings or needs for anything else. In fact, after being on it for a while your taste actually changes. My nutritionist told me that would happen to so it's nice to see it come into play. There are a lot of foods that I like now that I could never eaten before like tomatoes, avocados, spinach etc. I have zero sugar cravings and even some fruits are actually too sweet tasting now since I've changed my diet. I feel so good... like a teenager again. I have so much energy and my mood is stable all day long. Like I said in another post, I feel 1000% better.
The only thing that really sucks about it is that I was (and still am) so excited because we finally solved the problem I have been dealing with for years and I'm left to celebrate myself without my wife who I really wanted to be proud and supportive. That is the really hard part.
So what do you guys think about my current plan of action?
I have a journal that I will be posting whats working and whats not working so i can carefully track what I'm doing and not backslide as much as possible.
I hope this post helps some of you who might be in a similar sitch. All in all I would say that separation to reconciliation took about 2months.
- Scott
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