The Ultimatum

[fooled again]

Tipper,

It is sooo good to hear from you. I've gotten away from posting too much on many threads as I realize that there are times when I project too much of my own feelings into other's sitch's and then I want to post my thoughts but fear they may be taken the wrong way, especially b/c I've done something that many would say is NOT the right thing to do.

But one thing I want to say to you Tipper, especially you since you are young and have no children and have the world at your feet - LISTEN TO YOUR GUT!!!!! I ignored my gut over and over and over and over and over... Well you get the idea. The days I listened to my gut, I caught him again and again and again. I think God gives us intuition for a reason. It's a tool we can use or ignore. If you don't feel that you are being treated w/ respect by your H, DBing doesn't mean you have to eat sh*t, doesn't mean you have to put your own self respect aside. But the minute I knew I wasn't afraid to lose my H (and I've read this over and over in the "success stories"), I was able to face the future w/out him, and that made it impossible for me not to tell H that this was IT, NO MORE, I'M DONE. MAKE YOUR CHOICE. DO IT NOW OR LOSE ME FOREVER. Sounds harsh, I know, but I knew it was time... Something I've wanted to have the courage to do for a very long time, but just wasn't strong enough then.

Piecing sucks - BIG TIME - since once again I am putting it out on the line. But this time is different b/c I know if H f#cks up again, I am gone like the wind. I know I would not take him back again - it's like something has shifted inside and this is the very last time I will give him another chance. I THINK I can see in his eyes that he knows this is true, but I don't know. So I still have my doubts and I am going to maintain vigilance and stand by my expectations. I truly hope that you will too.

Never forget that you are fabulous, you are deserving of love and respect and loyalty. If your H doesn't figure this out on his own, eventually you WILL get to the point where you will say to him, "I love you but I can't do this anymore. When you are ready to grow up and make this work, call me. You know where I am." It took me 2 years to have the guts to do that.

Take very, very, very good care of yourself & thanks for stopping by. I will stop in on your thread when I get a chance.

FA

[Tipper]

Thanks FA,
I agree with going with the gut thing. There have been many times it seems like fate has shined through to me and pointed me in the right direction.

I really hope that your H makes the right choice, either way I know you will be fine. I agree that we just get to a point sometimes that we are not afraid of losing them.

I think I almost reached that point when I wrote my H an ultimatum letter back in April. Luckily my Gut was telling me to wait on sending it and much to my surprise my H was apologizing to me about a week later and now we have been in piecing for about two months. I still carry the letter with me though (just in case) and it helped me so much to actually write it.

I guess my gut is telling me to be patient right now, and voice my concerns as they come up in nice soft ways so I dont get walked on.

Thanks for the reply and I cant wait to hear your progress with your sitch. Your H would be crazy to choose the OW over a life long companion and wonderful daughter that both love him dearly.

My thoughts are with you,
TIPPER

[fooled again]

Tipper, I was just posting another note to you when I saw your reply, so I'm doing some editing. My last post sounded kindof negative b/c I was feeling vulnerable, and have been feeling this way on and off since H started spending the night at the house. But I guess that's normal.

I have told my H what I dont agree with (him being at the bars all the time still), and he says he is trying to work on it and stay away from them more,but he always comes up with some excuse to go there anyway. I wish he wanted to be more invested in us, than his own selfish self medicating.

I hate how selfishly your H is acting and I know how much it hurts to stand by & watch. I wonder if the more they know we are standing by waiting for them, the more they think they can just keep doing what they are doing, kindof like spoiled children pushing parents to see where the line will be drawn. But you know, I had carried around my ultimatum letter since Jan/08. I never gave it to him b/c each time I was about to, he seemed to come around and make me feel like we were going to be okay. My ultimatum letter had undergone several rewrites b/w Jan and June. But I must have known all along that I was eventually going to have to give it to him, I just needed to be sure in my heart that I would follow through if H chose not to give up OW.

Anyway, I really need to wrap my head around piecing since I've been in survival mode for so long. It's kindof like a dance that neither of us knows the steps to - we can hear the music off in the distance and we want to join in, but we are both afraid of getting stepped on. But my coach said something to me that made me realize that I have to keep trying. She said that H is the one w/ the most to lose right now, and if I don't believe in him this last time and he's being honest this time, then I lose too. If I'm wrong and he is lying again, I simply walk away and live my own life. I need to be able to say to myself, and to my D in years to come, that I did EVERYTHING I could, and if that's not enough, then I know it's not about me.

H and I have begun to settle back into a family routine again. H has been picking D up from school or daycare, coming home, we fix supper, then eat all together, play for a bit, walk the dog, one reads stories & does tuck-in while the other does dishes & makes lunches. Then after D is in bed, H & I talk or watch TV for a bit then go to bed. It's quite strange b/c for the past year I've been living as a single mom, doing it all myself, and at the end of the day going to bed alone, living my own life w/ H only on the periphery. It felt empty, unfinished, incomplete. Now, w/ H around most of the time, the house feels completely different - my D smiles & laughs more, the dog is calmer, better behaved, the house feels warmer, brighter, fuller.

Of course, it is difficult to block out thoughts of OW and the past two years, and that I thought we were piecing before, but he was still in his A. I know I will feel 1,000% better once I see his notice letter (so I know he's actually moving home - OW would never stand for H moving back into the house) and especially once we meet w/ OW. We do talk a bit about R every day, but not too much and not for long. I'm trying to contain our R talks so they don't overwhelm either of us - I have to remind myself that we can't fix this overnight, so no marathon sessions.

Tonight we have a date. We haven't figured out what we'll do yet, but the sitter is booked and it looks like it will be a lovely evening

FA

[momof2girls]

Piecing is hard isn't it! I just wanted to say that I have the same feelings you do about the house feeling whole again!

When H was doing the OW/MLC thing, I was the single mom and I felt lonely all the time. I went out with friends and I have my girls but something was missing...

Now that H is home (its been a year now...) I still get nervous that I put myself out there again. Like your H and you, there will be no more chances in this house. If H does anything like this again I will be gone.

I am not afraid to be alone, been there, done that and survived! I chose to have my marriage and H, I no longer take that for granted. Our M is better than ever, we communicate more and make sure we put each other first...that is hard especially when we both work full time and run kids around!!

I hope you see the notice you are looking for, and the conversation with OW takes place. That will solidify the fact that your H is home where he (and you) want to be!

[fooled again]

Thanks Mom (I couldn't resist - sorry)

It's like you can see right into my mind & heart. There is comfort in knowing what I would do if H did it again, comfort in knowing that I am strong enough to move on, and comfort in realizing that there can be happiness and fulfillment in my future no matter what H chooses.

But for now, I am building a future w/ H and my strength and resolve is like my insurance policy, as a backup I hope I'll never need.

Are you in Piecing? Or do you simply wander about scattering seeds of hope wherever you go? Thank you for posting on my thread - the more I learn about other hopeful stories, the more I feel that I'm not being foolish giving H this final chance.

FA

[fooled again]

Here's an update:

Today H gave me his notice ltr w/ both his signature and the property manager's in ink. When he gets the confirmation ltr back on July 1, he will give it to me. At this point I have to say that H has fulfilled my first condition.

It's possible that he faked the letter & forged a signature - just the sort of thing an MLCer would do. But why? I'd find out & then it would be over b/w us & there will no more chances. I said to myself that by the end of July, I will KNOW for sure - I've waited two years, I can wait another month. Maybe if I just let things go again, if I didn't continue to make it crystal clear that my conditions are non-negotiable, it might be possible for H to go back to OW - we are talking about an addiction. But I intend to set H up for success, not for failure, as my coach suggested, so I am being loving but firm, supportive but not a doormat. He must fulfill all my conditions.

H did tell me that he would tell D next week that he's moving back home, when he gets back from his business trip. I believe H would not lie to D about this, as it truly would break her heart, so when he tells D, I will know he is really coming home.

And for the first time in ages, H has forwarded to me the actual email from his travel agent w/ his flight and hotel info. When H calls me to talk b/f bed, I will call him back in his hotel room to be sure that he is actually there.

As for my other conditions, transparency is obviously a work in progress, as is H getting control of his finances. The mtg w/ OW to give back her stuff and tell her "no contact ever again" is also going to happen very soon. I will not let H move back until the mtg has taken place.

So although I am nervous, especially w/ H is going away for 5 days, I am relying on my own strength to reassure me that I'm doing everything I can. Ultimately the choice is up to H, but no matter what, I know I'll be okay

FA

[grid, lost]

But I intend to set H up for success, not for failure, as my coach suggested, so I am being loving but firm, supportive but not a doormat. He must fulfill all my conditions.

FA
Do you mind if I ask you is your coach? Just curious. I have spoken with Jodie couple times and found her to be vey helpful.
grid lost

[fooled again]

Hi Grid,

Well, my coach is actually an independent "life coach" who is local to me (I'm on the left coast). I have thought many times about using a DB coach, but I really wanted to have someone that I can meet w/ in person if I need to. I found her through another site for healing from EA/PA. I have come to realize that MWD's ideas are not so radical as I originally thought and there is so much info out there on saving your M instead of walking away, giving hope where once there was none.

I'm really happy that you have found a DB coach that is helping you. I think we have to find that right fit - it makes such a huge difference.

FA

[Tipper]

FA,
Hey there thanks for writing back!

I agree with you and how you hate to see my H doing the things he is still doing. I dont deserve half of the crap I am trying to put up with and get through.

I am pretty jealous that you H is already acting like a real H again and showing you he wants to be with you and around you all the time.

My H acts like a alien still. It's always the alcohol/bars that makes our problems come to the surface. My H and I had a fight this weekend and now things are really wierd and awkward again.

I feel like I just cant win. I want this to work so bad, but I am very fearful that my H is still in this crisis and I want to get back the man that I love. He seems to not exist anymore.

Good Luck with things, as I said I am pretty jealous - but really happy for you the way things are going so well in your sitch.
TIPPER

[fooled again]

Hi Tipper,

No reason for you to be jealous - I'm in my own little world of h*ll, it's just a different flavour. I used to be such an optimist, but now, not so much.

The trouble w/ my sitch is that my H never really acted like an alien - he was very deceptive, and knew how to make me believe his lies, with just enough sincerity and kindness, that I kept getting sucked in over and over. Ugh, when I think about it it makes me very angry. But I think part of it was my own fault, for ignoring my "spider senses", which I KNOW i did out of fear - I was afraid of the truth, afraid that once cornered, H would choose OW. I had to find the strength to say to myself that living w/out H would be better than the roller coaster. I had to make myself believe that I would be just fine w/out him. And once I did, I knew in my heart what was really going on, that he was still seeing OW. And so I took control of what I could, I grabbed the steering wheel of my life and decided what I believed I am worth. If H didn't see what he was losing, then he didn't deserve me. I had to be sure that I would not cave if my H couldn't fulfill my conditions, and I know I won't, so H knows I'm gone & he loses everything if he screws up this time. And that happens, I'll walk away knowing I did all I could.

Tipper, I still don't know for sure. I still wonder, I still doubt, I still take everything H says to me and I dissect it looking for discrepancies, lies, tricks. It will be a long, long time b/f that's gone, b/f I don't wonder anymore. That is my own piece of h*ll, but it's a h*ll I've chosen and one I can deal w/ b/c I know the way out, and will take it if I have to. For the first time since all of this happened, I'm not afraid. And that is the most amazing feeling of all...

Tipper, you have so much in your life, your art, your friends, your other activities, I can't help but think that you could detach more and let your H spin his wheels some more. I think I see in your M a similar pattern of pursuer/distancer that I had in mine. You pursue your H and he withdraws. The minute you withdraw, he pursues you. When he starts to pursue, you go back to pursuing & then he withdraws. And I think they instinctively know how to use our own fears against us.

Take care of yourself, keep GALing and detaching. I think staying somewhat detached is also a necessary thing in piecing, so I'm really glad I was able to finally get the hang of it.

FA