Well, we've made what I thought were hopeful starts before, but I feel good.
In no particular order, I told her:
I'm very angry.
I never want to lose her, but I won't accept being miserable and one of us would inevitably get fed up someday, which means divorce.
Right now we're going toward divorce, not away from it. Our sex life already sucks and our marriage is headed in the wrong direction.
I feel taken for granted. She thinks I'll accept any level of misery just to live in the same house as her. This partly my fault for telling her in word and deed that I would accept any level of misery just to . . . well, you know.
She told me:
She feels taken for granted. Nobody cleans up; everyone expects her to do it.
When it comes to my "morals and the things you believe in" I'm not a pushover, but when it comes to her, I am.
She was surprised to hear me ask about being a doormat, because she thought I'd been a lot more assertive lately, making decisions that needed to be made without consulting her. Looking back on the last month or so, she's right, but I hadn't thought consciously about "being more assertive" or "being a man." I just decided things weren't going to get done if I had to fret and worry about what she would say about the way I did them, so I decided to do them anyway.
She brought up her parents again. This is a common theme. It's true; her mother has a good heart, but she's a domineering woman who rules with an iron fist. Ironically, I have no trouble standing up to her, but then, she's never really approved of me and it's easier for me to stand up to my enemies than my friends. But my wife's father is an alcoholic and a mouse of a man, (but now sober for years, active in AA, and married again, happily, I think) and her current husband is as loud as she is, but certainly not in charge of anything. I always thought of my wife as submissive to her mother and glad to be out from under her thumb, but she says she's afraid she's becoming her mother--a domineering woman with a henpecked husband.
I can see that being henpecked isn't attractive, but more than that, I've always thought of myself as a strong person. I don't intend to be rolled by anyone. I guess I just thought I was showing her respect and making it clear that I trusted her. I was giving her what I wanted from her.
So there's a long way to go, but I feel much better. I made an effort not to do some of the little self-hating things I've made habits of over the years; things I didn't really even notice until they were ingrained habits. For one thing, I bet I say "sorry" 5-10 times a day. I apologize for things I couldn't possibly have done wrong. "My head is killing me." "Oh, sorry." "You don't have to be sorry, you didn't do it." "Yeah, well,I'm sorry you're hurting, though." I'm sure the reply in bold was supposed to be my hint that I was driving her up a wall, but I just thought I was going above and beyond, being a good husband, sensitive to her feelings (cuz gurls liek feelings, amirite?)
So yesterday, I said "Sor--no, I think I'm going to stop saying I'm sorry so much." "Thank you!"
Finally, I took the big chance for me. Starting small, I kissed her. I didn't want to get too pushy, and I didn't want to get rejected, but I decided that being timid was getting me nowhere. This was before we talked, so I wasn't sure how it would go, but each time I kissed her, she responded. We had several that were pretty warm and a few that were passionate. It's not that we never share a passionate kiss, but I would say we shared more of them yesterday (and this morning before she left) than in the last six months. The best thing about this morning was the lack of frustration. I wanted a long kiss, so I kissed her. Um . . . "longly." She was just out of the shower, wearing only her thin robe, and she was very tempting, but she was looking at me hopefully--it was almost as if she'd be disappointed if I chose not to kiss her, and I could have chosen not to do it. And she responded. She kissed me back. I touched her face and her neck and she leaned into me. I thought about trying for more, but she was late for work, so I let it end there. Maybe it will lead to more later, maybe not. But I wanted it, and I did it. I'm not frustrated about what I didn't get to do, which is a nice feeling.
Anyway, it's the twins' birthday, so we're having a fun morning here, and I'm sure that helps. Let me know what you think.
SOB - If I had to make a guess, I would say you have taken a giant step foward.
And I would also guess, that IF you continue to educate yourself on how BOTH you and your wife have contributed to your sex problem, you and she will ultimately improve it - hopefully forever.
The key for you will be to contine to educate yourself. You still have a long way to go of understanding your wife's position as the LD spouse. When you understand it more and more, you will feel less and less angry.
The second key for you will be patience. You have to tell yourself "it might take over a year for us to make significant progress that shows itself regularly in the bedroom", and not rush it or get discouraged.
The key for your wife of course, will be to finish reading SSM and deciding for HERSELF (not for you) to put in the effort that will be required of her to bring her LD up a notch or two.
But...again my guess is that you both will make wise choices and fix this thing.
I am SO GLAD you brought up the D word. If you read my last long post, you see that if my ex-h had done this, it would have worked on me.
Suggestion: The passionate kissing you are talking about is something I talked about in NTE's thread before, but let me say it again. Passionate kisses are the gateway to a woman's sexuality. Here is a hint/key, however...it takes a woman being heated up slowly over and over for her to then get raging horny. What does that mean in practical terms? Well, think of your high school girlfriends, when you were too young to have sex yet but were on the verge of it. Those girls loved to kiss, no? Did you not spend literally hours making out with girlfriends in high school, night after night? And then one day, she suddenly says "I'm ready to have sex with you" and you're like "woo hoo!" (This may not be your story, but it is a common one). Well, it was that making out over and over that finally pushed her over the top.
Again, the practical terms? MAKE OUT WITH YOUR WIFE. Do not expect sex from it. LEARN to enjoy just making out. Learn to love how the sexual urges rise to the surface over and over, knowing you will not fulfill them. Mash on the couch like teenagers. Do this as often as she will allow you, both of you fully knowing there is no expectation of sex to follow.
If you can get into a habit of this, you will see your wife get more interested in sex in general.
This exercise is not to be used for everyone, because those who are too bitter to do it without expectation of sex just should not do it.
But those who are truly trying to help their wife to raise her desire level would be wise to learn that MAKING OUT WITH her will help her! It will not immediately produce a sex vixen, but it will slowly raise her sex hormone level the more you do it.
Keep us posted, SOB.
Good job.
Stay patient and loving.
Keep educating yourself about how SHE feels (through listening to her and reading the experiences of others and reading literature by experts).
Oh and P.S...I didn't mention this before, but you said in other posts that you have about 100 pounds to lose.
Not sure how to say this, but LOSE the dang weight, ok? Then that will not be a factor and you will feel better in general. No excuses, dude. 100 is too much extra weight.
Not sure how to say this, but LOSE the dang weight, ok? Then that will not be a factor and you will feel better in general. No excuses, dude. 100 is too much extra weight.
(no offense)
Just couldn't resist, could you?
Quote:
Well, think of your high school girlfriends, when you were too young to have sex yet but were on the verge of it. Those girls loved to kiss, no? Did you not spend literally hours making out with girlfriends in high school, night after night? And then one day, she suddenly says "I'm ready to have sex with you" and you're like "woo hoo!"
Any update? One of my main challenges has always been how to translate a positive discussion, like you had, into action. These discussions reignite my feelings of hope and when she doesn't follow through with any of her committments, then the hope transforms into resentment. Hopefully that is not the case in your house and I will be interested in what you do to follow up.
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
I'm putting the updates into my Newcomers thread. The link is in my sig. I don't want to have the same conversation in two places, especially since some other people are also writing in both.
I should have titled this thread "Your Advice: Wait Longer or Talk Tonight?" but I can't resist trying to be funny.
The short version: she has followed through so far, and I have tried to follow through as well. We've had three good days. I'm just trying to keep things moving now. Details at the link in my sig.
