Watching the kids while W goes to OM

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Puppy is your story on her somewhere? I would love to read how you worked through it. You W sounds like mine, and I am also a thinker. I research and analyze every angle of everything...which probably gets me into these messes.

The biggest issue I'm having is do I fight or do I let her go. I know if I fight I can win, but is it really a win? Will she grow as a person so we can have a mature relationship? Can I let her go? Can I deal with her going farther into the OM arms? Will she come back to me or is he the one for her?

It's all so confusing.

Lynn

Lynn,

Read all of "Chocolateeyes" old threads:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...=1&fromsearch=1

I think you'll find our backgrounds, and our approach, remarkably similar.

Do you fight or let her go? That one's easy: you fight for your marriage, BY "letting her go" to a certain degree, and for fighting for her at the same time. Why?

1) God hates divorce;

2) YOU don't sound like you want to be divorced;

3) Your wife, believe it or not, is likely LOOKING for you to fight for her;

4) It will make you more attractive to her;

5) It will make you a better spouse to someone else in the future if this doesn't work out;

6) It's the right thing to do.

Puppy

[lynn97]

Wow puppy that helped tremendously. I can't say it enough but thank you. I'm struggling right now because we just had another great conversation on the phone. It was nice, I was helpful but not controlling. She's having a bad day and I only listened, but didn't offer to take care of the kids.

Of course in the end she did ask and I did say ok (I know wrong but this was before I read the post). But I really didn't want to go to work and I don't mind staying with the kids. Besides I was just going to run errands anyway and they enjoy doing that too so having them along is cool with me.

Plus the reason I said yes is that she is going to go take some time for herself to get some clarity before the counselors appointment. I think she does need to do this. I think if she got away from both of us she would see all of this, which is why I offer. But I also see now that that's trying to help her too much. It's her journey and she has to decide what to do. I realize that pulling way back is the best thing....but it's so hard to do. I really, really, really want to watch a show with her tonight. Plus I was already planning on taking both Thursday and Friday to myself to distance from her.

I think i will setup the boundary talk sometime at the end of the weekend, maybe Sunday night. I need some time to think about it. I won't see her tomorrow or Friday and Saturday only briefly to get the kids. I'm also going to set a boundary tonight of not being able to stay overnight with the kids. I don't feel right staying there and its very uncomfortable for me. If they want me there in the morning I'll just get up early and drive there so I'm there when they wake.

Tonight is the tough one. I'm seeing real progress. And no I wouldn't get back together with her tonight, and I won't be physical in any way. And I'm aware that if we do decided to work on it that she has to be in a different place. But I do want to watch the show. In fact I'll probably just watch the show and leave. But what do I say when she says what's wrong. (I know, I know that's why you don't go stupid).

Lynn

[lynn97]

Oh and I forgot to add that I have to go now but I do want to discuss some of your post in more detail so expect another post tonight sometime.

And to answer your question. He was married for 5 years to a "loveless and uncaring" wife. They just decided to go their separate ways last week. He said he loved her but more like a sister. They were never physical and she showed him no emotion. Now my wife is, blah, blah, blah. No surprises there.

Anyway will post later. Thanks.

Lynn

[Puppy Dog Tails]

And to answer your question. He was married for 5 years to a "loveless and uncaring" wife. They just decided to go their separate ways last week. He said he loved her but more like a sister. They were never physical and she showed him no emotion. Now my wife is, blah, blah, blah. No surprises there.

Anyway will post later. Thanks.

Lynn

Sounds like they're BOTH in the fog. We'll have a more lengthy discussion about exposure later, but you may want to consider exposing their affair to the OM's wife. She deserves to know, and you'll find that how waywards depict their marriages to their lovers is often FAR from the truth, or even accurate.

Puppy

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Wow puppy that helped tremendously. I can't say it enough but thank you. I'm struggling right now because we just had another great conversation on the phone. It was nice, I was helpful but not controlling. She's having a bad day and I only listened, but didn't offer to take care of the kids.

Of course in the end she did ask and I did say ok (I know wrong but this was before I read the post). But I really didn't want to go to work and I don't mind staying with the kids. Besides I was just going to run errands anyway and they enjoy doing that too so having them along is cool with me.

Plus the reason I said yes is that she is going to go take some time for herself to get some clarity before the counselors appointment. I think she does need to do this. I think if she got away from both of us she would see all of this, which is why I offer. But I also see now that that's trying to help her too much. It's her journey and she has to decide what to do. I realize that pulling way back is the best thing....but it's so hard to do. I really, really, really want to watch a show with her tonight. Plus I was already planning on taking both Thursday and Friday to myself to distance from her.

I think i will setup the boundary talk sometime at the end of the weekend, maybe Sunday night. I need some time to think about it. I won't see her tomorrow or Friday and Saturday only briefly to get the kids. I'm also going to set a boundary tonight of not being able to stay overnight with the kids. I don't feel right staying there and its very uncomfortable for me. If they want me there in the morning I'll just get up early and drive there so I'm there when they wake.

Tonight is the tough one. I'm seeing real progress. And no I wouldn't get back together with her tonight, and I won't be physical in any way. And I'm aware that if we do decided to work on it that she has to be in a different place. But I do want to watch the show. In fact I'll probably just watch the show and leave. But what do I say when she says what's wrong. (I know, I know that's why you don't go stupid).

Lynn

Lynn,

If I'm going to call "B.S." with you, I guess there's no time like the present.

Of course in the end she did ask and I did say ok (I know wrong but this was before I read the post). But I really didn't want to go to work and I don't mind staying with the kids. Besides I was just going to run errands anyway and they enjoy doing that too so having them along is cool with me.

Lynn,

My advice to you -- to cancel your "date" with your wife for this evening -- was not based on whether or not you "minded," or whether or not it met any of YOUR needs. It was strictly tactical, to begin to "stop doing what doesn't work/keep doing what does work" and to "180" and take back control of the agenda.

Plus the reason I said yes is that she is going to go take some time for herself to get some clarity before the counselors appointment. I think she does need to do this. I think if she got away from both of us she would see all of this, which is why I offer.

That would all be great, if that's what she was going to do with the time. You'll find that most of the time that you "give her space" will just be used to spend time with, and/or communicate with, her boyfriend. Couple that fact with the fact that you'd actually be ENABLING their time together, and you can hopefully see where this isn't helpful to your cause.

But I also see now that that's trying to help her too much. It's her journey and she has to decide what to do.

Yep!

I realize that pulling way back is the best thing....but it's so hard to do.

Lynn, no one said this was going to be easy. But what you're going to find is that RARELY is the "easier" path the "right" path. Almost always, it is not. SHORT-term, it will feel better/easier/less confrontational, but long-term it will take you FURTHER from your goal, and not closer.

I really, really, really want to watch a show with her tonight.

Too bad; sucks to be you. You'd better start learning to check YOUR emotional needs at the door. If your wife were to end her affair TODAY (not likely), she will, in all likelihood, not be in a position to begin meeting YOUR emotional or physical needs for at least six months. Resign yourself to that, start looking for other ways to soothe yourself, and stop looking to a cheating spouse to meet your needs.

Sorry if that hurts, but it's the truth, and the sooner you start to realize it, the better off you'll be.

Plus I was already planning on taking both Thursday and Friday to myself to distance from her.

Saying "just this once, and THEN I'll do what I need to do!" is only delaying the inevitable, and is a sign of intellectual dishonesty with yourself. Just as in WDID's sitch, saying "I'll begin no-contact with OM this weekend," I cry "bullchit" on this one, Lynn, sorry.

I think i will setup the boundary talk sometime at the end of the weekend, maybe Sunday night.

Ditto -- see above.

I need some time to think about it.

I agree. You need to be well-prepared. I scripted mine out, and PRACTICED it about three dozen times, alone in my office with my door closed. SO TAKE ONE DAY. You've been at this for several weeks now, you frankly have a MARATHON to run, Lynn, and you're stalling getting the first (albeit, admittedly difficult) 220 yards done.

I'm also going to set a boundary tonight of not being able to stay overnight with the kids. I don't feel right staying there and its very uncomfortable for me. If they want me there in the morning I'll just get up early and drive there so I'm there when they wake.

Lynn, this is NOT a boundary. This is nothing but limits on your OWN behavior. A boundary is a line of demarcation that -- if crossed - violates your own personal integrity. You need to think about what the three or four hard boundaries are that you want to communicate to your WIFE, that are indeed "dealbreakers," for which you are willing to stake your marriage and your honor. Only you know what these are; we can't make them for you.

Tonight is the tough one. I'm seeing real progress.

Define "progress." I think you're defining it as "that felt good"; or, "We didn't argue!" As someone far wiser than me once said, "Peace is not the absence of conflict." I would encourage you to define "progress" as actions (not words), over time, by your wife that represent a movement back toward your marriage. I could be wrong, but I'm just not seeing it. What I'm seeing is her demonstrating a feeling of entitlement, of "Oh good, I've got Lynn where I want him now, giving me 'space' while I figure out what I want to do. He's such a nice guy!"

Lynn, make no mistake -- I'm NOT advocating being an ASS. You should be "lovingly detached" from your wife. But you're going to be needing to do more honest introspection than you've ever done in your life, so I'm imploring you at least be honest with yourself, and not naive, so that you can squarely face head-on the difficult tasks that are going to need to be done.

You can agree or disagree with me about your strategy or about specific tactics, but until you have a firm foundation and understanding of the situation as it really exists right now, you won't be able to get started. And as it exists right now, your wife is having an affair, and in her mind she has received your tacit approval to date this other guy, while you wait for her to decide. She has lost respect (but not her love) for you.

Tonight is the tough one. I'm seeing real progress. And no I wouldn't get back together with her tonight, and I won't be physical in any way. And I'm aware that if we do decided to work on it that she has to be in a different place. But I do want to watch the show. In fact I'll probably just watch the show and leave. But what do I say when she says what's wrong. (I know, I know that's why you don't go stupid).

Well, at least we agree on SOMETHIN'.

Puppy

[lynn97]

Puppy your step by step analysis is exactly the way I think. It's perfect.

That would all be great, if that's what she was going to do with the time. You'll find that most of the time that you "give her space" will just be used to spend time with, and/or communicate with, her boyfriend. Couple that fact with the fact that you'd actually be ENABLING their time together, and you can hopefully see where this isn't helpful to your cause.

So should I ask her when she gets back. Maybe something like

"I need you to be honest with me. While you were out did you communicate with him?"

Then if the answer is yes...

"I know we had made plans tonight but I can't do that right now. I've got plans tomorrow and Friday since those are your days with the kids. I need some time away to think."

and then leave.

If she says no and says that she spent the time thinking about things and then at the counselors it will be more like

"I think that's a positive step in working out things. I'm glad. I also think I need some time too. I know we had plans tonight but I think I'm gonna go now. We'll talk later."

Spend tomorrow working on how to bring up the boundaries and the "ultimatum" in her words and then get back with her on Friday.

After reading this again I realize I probably shouldn't even ask about the OM...it doesn't matter at this point.

Lynn

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Lynn,

Another maxim you'll hear from me often: "All cheaters lie." Don't expect your wife to be truthful with you when it comes to matters pertaining to her affair for quite some time. So asking HER to confirm her own contact is fruitless, and counterproductive to the overall idea that I'm trying to get you to see, and that is to begin to exhibit LEADING behavior.

Canceling your "date" for tonite is proactive, and leading, and it lets her know that SHE no longer controls the agenda.

You can simply say "I'm sorry, but I need to cancel for tonite." When she asks why, just say "I have a lot to think about, and I'm afraid I wouldn't be much company right now." Be polite, but not forlorn or "wounded puppy" at all.

Shedule no future "dates" with her. If she tries to schedule something before you can have "The Talk" with her, politely decline, using similar words as above.

btw, strike the word "ultimatum" from your vocabulary. It's controlling. You are NOT going to be telling HER what to do; you are going to be letting her know what YOU are -- and are not -- willing to tolerate in a marriage.

"I cannot control you, nor can I make your choices for you. All I can do is let you know that I am NOT willing to live in an open marriage, nor do I approve of you dating other men while we are still married. I felt you should know that, in very clear terms" is your position.

Then set about to DB your azz off.

Make sense?

Puppy

[lynn97]

"I cannot control you, nor can I make your choices for you. All I can do is let you know that I am NOT willing to live in an open marriage, nor do I approve of you dating other men while we are still married. I felt you should know that, in very clear terms" is your position.

This is perfect. And if she says so what do we do now then I say:

"I think we both need to take some time to think. I've made it clear to you where I stand. I'm very willing to work on this marriage and our relationship problems, but I'm not willing to forfeit my beliefs and have an open marriage."

Then leave. I guess I wait for her to initiate contact, but only to discuss this situation. Although we will have to talk about the kids and our schedule with them at some point before that. I don't want the kids to suffer more than they already are.

Lynn

[Puppy Dog Tails]

"I cannot control you, nor can I make your choices for you. All I can do is let you know that I am NOT willing to live in an open marriage, nor do I approve of you dating other men while we are still married. I felt you should know that, in very clear terms" is your position.

This is perfect. And if she says so what do we do now then I say:

"I think we both need to take some time to think. I've made it clear to you where I stand. I'm very willing to work on this marriage and our relationship problems, but I'm not willing to forfeit my beliefs and have an open marriage."

Then leave. I guess I wait for her to initiate contact, but only to discuss this situation. Although we will have to talk about the kids and our schedule with them at some point before that. I don't want the kids to suffer more than they already are.

Lynn

\

You are a quick study, Lynn.

Don't be afraid to use the "A-word," and to keep things focused on that as a first step. As in:

"I think we both need to take some time to think. I've made it clear to you where I stand. I'm very willing to work on this marriage and our relationship problems, but I'm not willing to forfeit my beliefs and have an open marriage. END YOUR AFFAIR, and we'll talk about anything and everything you want to."

[lynn97]

Ok so I really feel I'm going on the right track now. A few more questions.

If she does say the D word or LS or something close to that what do I say? I don't want to agree to that. What is the DB way? Maybe

"I'm sorry to hear you've come to that conclusion. I'm still in a place where I think our marriage can work and be better than it ever was before. This is a very big decision and I'm going to need some time to think it over" then leave and have NO contact with her until it's time to get the kids. And then what do I do. Nothing? When she asks just ignore it? I just get the feeling that's the road she is going to go down, especially if I pressure her with "the talk"

Next what's best to do with the kids? Right now I come to our house and spend time with them 3 or 4 night a week and one weekend day. I don't have my own place so I can't bring them there. I know this is out of the scope of DB'ing but thought someone may have insight.

Lynn