The Ultimatum

[cat03]

FA, the money issue reminded me of the first time I busted stbx' A and he told me he owed her money for a loan she made to him to fix his car. I got a cashier's check, he signed it, we went together to her appt, put it under her door with a good bye letter which he wrote, IC and I read.

Lo and behold, turns out that after I left he went back, with his key of course,got rid of the letter and just gave her the money (she was/is a damsel in distress strapped for cash and stbx was the sugar daddy at my expense)

So, be careful and make sure the payments are for what they are supposed to be for.

For you see, in the end, it is between you & (your) God
It never was between you and them anyway!

That poem is beautiful, despite of the crap stbx put me through i don't wish him ill, I pity him, and I wish he comes through for the children.

[fooled again]

Thank you dar and BFM. Her words have such power to make us see truth and goodness and to strive to be best we can be.

The past few days have quite a struggle for us. I am trying to keep my expectations at a minimum, but it is difficult. Having made clear my conditions and H having assured me that he is willing and able to meet them, it is difficult to wait for H to follow through and without nagging or pestering him about his progress. I have to realize that this is a huge mess to clean up and it must be done one chunk at a time or it will overwhelm him, and us.

I am looking for the baby steps and trying make him feel appreciated and accepted without letting him off the hook. I honestly feel that I need to stand firm on what I said I needed from him to move forward, and yet I can feel his frustration and I want to give him some reassurance. That all works for me logically, but emotionally I can feel my own need for reassurance getting stronger as we start to piece. I find myself having moments where I think about the life he had created w/ OW (even though it was all lies), imagining the little routine things that they did together, like getting ready for bed or eating breakfast together, and it makes me want to SCREAM!!! But I don't. The other night I had a little cry alone in the bathroom as I was taking off my makeup, imagining OW doing the same as she got ready to go to bed with MY H. I think it's these little things that hurt the most.

Yesterday H dealt with one of his major financial issues proactively, and I recognized what a positive big step it was in the huge task of H dealing w/ the damage from his MLC. There is alot of financial stuff to be worked through and I will do my best to support his progress - a 180 for me since b/f the A, I was very critical of him wrt finances, and I took care of paying all the bills and managing the money. I believe that letting H take responsibility for his own finances is a change that will hopefully make him a more responsible spender (always an issue w/ us - I'm much more frugal that H).

So the work of piecing has begun, and the need for patience is even greater now. This will not happen quickly, there is so much to be done, so much to be dealt with, so much to heal from. I keep thinking that his A lasted 2 1/2 years and MLC at least a year longer, and based on his behaviour, his moods and things he has said recently, I don't believe he is out of MLC, though it's anybody's guess what stage he is in. Will it take at least that long b/f I can say we are "fixed"? Or is this a lifelong process? My coach told me that I need to be sure why I am taking him back, b/c there will be some pretty dark days ahead for me - I'm trying to keep my mind focused on the present, not the past and not even the future. Whew, this is tough...

FA

[fooled again]

cat,

Your warning is well received. At this stage of the game, I am asking for proof of everything. I want proof of his giving his notice. I want a meeting w/ OW, the three of us. The money he owes her will be given to her directly with me there, and any future payments will be mailed or I will handle them. On this point I am not going to back down or simply trust him. And if he refuses, I am gone - there is no wiggle room here. Of course, he is free to do what he wants, but if he wants me, this is how it has to be. I am at that point that I will walk away and not look back.

As for his own finances, he will have to talk to his own creditors and work out his own arrangements, and it looks like he is starting to do just that. He has been avoiding this for a very, very long time, so I am encouraged. Again, even if he gets his finances all worked out, he could decide that he is unwilling to do the others, but that's his choice, and I HAVE to be able to accept that and move on if need be.

I am forcing H to make choices, but they are his choices alone to make, and I am making it clear to him that I am okay with whatever choices he makes, but it is time for my H to make these choices and time for me to get on with my life.

I think that reminding H from time to time of this will encourage him to be less resistant (childlike), and to take responsibility for his actions (adult). In the end, he has to do what he sees is best for him - I don't want him to do any of this out of obligation or pity and I want him to be very clear about what he wants and why he is doing what he is doing. Maybe this is not what other's would do, but I've detached to the point that I can let him go and let him live the life he chooses, even if that means he chooses OW or chooses not to come back.

Yes, I have a knot in my stomach as I write this, b/c I know that I could lose him, but I risk losing myself, which would be the greatest loss and one I am not willing to take anymore.

FA

[butterflymom]

FA,

for me, the stage you are in now was the hardest. I never issued and ultimatum, but as FW started moving back toward me and making progress toward being home it was HARD to be patient. I wanted it to happen NOW!

Nearly 7 months of NC with OW now and things are finally starting to settle down. FW is still in MLC (or whatever you want to call it) and has bouts of depression about once a month. He recognizes it and knows what it is, but it still takes a toll on him. He told me in one of his bouts just a few weeks ago that he still thinks about running away. Not running TO anyone, just away. He thinks about his "carefree" lifestyle and says that while he was miserable for a lot of it some of it was really fun (ie- no responsibility and being able to go and do whatever you wanted to whenever you wanted to without worrying about who was watching the kids, money, etc etc). In the same conversation he also said he looks at what we do as a family and as a couple and has a lot of fun doing that too. It's just different. At least now he recognizes the urge to run and realizes that it won't solve anything or make him happier.

It takes time for them to be completely out of everything. FW is now working with his DR. on some depression remedies that don't involve AD's since he had such bad side effects from them (seizures most notably). He's been referred to an endocrinologist and hopes to get some relief soon.

Good luck. Like I said, this is the hardest part (at least it was for me). When you're piecing, but not really and OW is still in the picture. Just be patient and stick to your guns.

BFM

[fooled again]

BFM,

I think you are right about this being the hardest part, although it is difficult to see that when you are fighting to get them to come back to you at all. Each stage has it's own challenges, but I see that it is imperative that we be patient throughout the entire process. I think back to the first bomb nearly two years ago and I would have done anything to be here. Now I know that the real work has only just begun.

It's good for me to hear about FW's depression, as I was curious about it. My H is clearly depressed, and it is something he demonstrates daily. I don't know what, if anything I can do for him when he gets that way - I don't want to push him to talk, nor do I want to make him feel that he is alone and that I don't care or that he can't talk to me. His tendency has always been to keep his feelings bottled up - and he has been practicing this for at least 24 years (as long as I've known him), likely longer. In fact, it's one of his family's legacies. H has never been one to trust in C, and the most recent experience he had did not go well. Nor does he feel comfortable w/ his Dr. as he is my Dr. as well and knows about H's A.

So I will tread carefully there and try to be supportive and loving, but firm. Time will tell, but H has has chosen to stay at the house every night since last Sat. Maybe he has stopped self medicating his depression and has decided that it's time to stop running away, and is turning to face his problems head on, no matter how bad they make him feel.

FA

[grid, lost]

But our home is quite unpredictable, we don't have a daily routine, as sometimes D is there, sometimes she is w/ H and the dog was very attached to her former little girl. Also, sometimes H is there, sometimes not (though more so lately). I can see how the dog would pick up any stress that's floating around. But the past few days, H has been at the house and I notice a huge difference in the dog, which is probably a reflection on the difference in the rest of us.

FA,
you do not need a regular routine to train your dog. Please so your life will be much easier and happy enroll in obedience class. Daily training is not more than 10-15 minutes. that is all you need to give. When H was home you mentioned dog acted different, for the better or not? As a suggestion try to get into the habit of having few doggie treats in your pockets. When dog acts as you wish, even if sitting quiet in kitchen watching you, reward with praise and a treat. A dog is like having a 3 or 4 old that never really grows up. They need structure as well as attention and love. Instead of saying to yourself, why will this dog not do what I want, ask your self what am I doing wrong that this dog doesn't understand what I need him to do.???

D is a little afraid b/c of the size difference and the dog's energy

,
this is good to know as appears at this point your D to dog is still higher in the pack. When dog is to excited around your D, teach your D to stand still, even turn her back on the dog till he calms down. Turning her back on the dog says, I'm not going to play with you till you stop this behavior. Dogs quickly learn to calm down. Then turn around and quietly tell dog he is a good dog and praise, even give treat.

But I will take your suggestions to heart. The reason I got the dog was not for me but for my D,

thank you for hearing me out. I know by your posts you are a kind person and will work to make this all come around. I under stand why you got the dog and as a volunteer with local animal shelter, to often when the stitchs do not work out, dog ends up in shelter or left in back yard alone, day after day after day. Which is not fair to the dog.

The family we adopted her from assured us that she had no discipline concerns and for the trial w/end, the dog was very easy and calm. Things are not always as they seem - go figure.

The reason the dog was fine for a short time is he must have come from a home with more structure and time for him. Now he is in your home has found out there is very little structure or boundaries and the 4 yr old kid in him is taking over, to sorta speak. Also keep in mind a GR is a sporting dog. They are bred for generations and generations to run and hunt in field all day long. Now he lives in house with little time for him, very little exercise and no boundries. I am sure he is a good dog just now he has all this energy so he could work in the field all day and he is suppose to lay around the house. Life just doesn't work that way. Put on those running shoes, leash him and run away from your problems, lol.
good luck, I know you can pull through.
cheers
grid, lost

[fooled again]

Thanks grid, I am reading and doing research and looking at training options. She is a good dog.

FA

[fooled again]

Journaling,

Hopefully this will be a quick update - I know that I can go on and on, but then again, better to do that here than to do it w/ my H. In fact, I got spanked a few days ago for talking to H about 5 different issues On the upside though, H was able to verbalize that it is difficult for him to handle dealing with 5 issues at once, so that now I know to talk to him about only 1 or 2 at a time. Baby steps to better communication

So update on my sitch. More positives yesterday & today:

H emailed me the actual itinerary for his next business trip, not simply telling me or writing down what time his flights are. This is good since b/f he would give me a rough idea but nothing concrete that I could follow up on, & I know that on at least one occasion the trip info he told me was a lie.

H has volunteered for the PTA executive at my D's school - treasurer no less!! To me this signals a stronger committment to family and will require H to dedicate some of his free time to being active in D's school. It also signasl to me that H has a desire to be more responsible financially (wow!). I was quite surprised at this, but didn't let on and said it was a great idea & I went w/ him to his first mtg.

When we got home, I asked H if he was staying the night again, he said yes if it's okay. Then I asked if this is what he would be doing now, sleeping at the house every night, he said yes

Earlier H had sent me a msg to my FB page asking "maybe tonight?" & when we got home from mtg, he asked again. I had been holding back, waiting to feel safer, & H had been withdrawing out of frustration (I think). H's gentle persistence made me realize that we both need that connection & holding back may not be doing me the good I thought it would. It has always been a very important part of our R. So I said yes & the rest is censored

Oh and I forgot, a couple of days ago, D's babysitter was over for a little visit w/ D and H asked me to see if she could sit for us this w/end. I am usually the one to initiate arranging for a sitter. She couldn't so I asked H yesterday to see if our other sitter was available. H set it all up, instead of having sitter call me w/ details. Again, a good sign

Today when I spoke to H about his day, I asked if he would be picking up the signed notice letter from his landlord, & he said "definitely". So I expect to see that letter tonight, though I will not make a big deal if I don't - I'll just ask then say nothing.

So there have been quite a few positives and forward steps. Maybe H was indeed ready to end his A when I caught him again. Things had been getting better and better b/w us, w/ H seeming more and more committed to me & D and spending much, much more time w/ us, & he told me that on his trip w/ OW they fought about me & he told her he didn't see a future for them. Maybe forcing him to make a choice at that point only worked in my favour b/c of where he was at - in fact I don't know for sure if I had done this a year ago, or 2 yrs ago, whether he would have chosen me. H was still very deep in Replay & nowhere near Reconnecting. But I have come to believe that quite possibly things happen for a reason and in their own time, even though we may not understand or like it to be that way. I must have known, for myself and for H, that the time was right for me to push him to make a choice. Was it God's (or whatever you believe) plan in action working to bring me closer to my goal? Could be...

FA

[Maya44]

FA,

It's so good to read these postings! Thank you for sharing!

[Tipper]

FA,
I am so happy to see your post up here again. I was wondering how things were going with your sitch. Now I know.

I am happy that you are being so strong and standing up for the ultimatum that you believe in.

I hope and pray that your H and mine both can live up to our expectations of them.

I have told my H what I dont agree with (him being at the bars all the time still), and he says he is trying to work on it and stay away from them more,but he always comes up with some excuse to go there anyway. I wish he wanted to be more invested in us, than his own selfish self medicating.

Well it looks like we are both piecing now, and this part is SOOOOOOOOO hard. I really want to have a better M than before, but right now it is only better for my H (due to his selfishness) and I am stuck dealing with a lot of hurt and rejection that he doesnt want to really talk about. It is like my H has the best of two worlds right now, freedom at the bars + a wife that loves him and welcomes him when ever he wants.

I am hoping you and I can help each other through this piecing experience with advise and encouragement.

I cant wait to see if your H follows through with ending it with the OW for good. I hope so for your sake.
TIPPER