Watching the kids while W goes to OM

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Hi, Lynn. Here are some of my thoughts on your sitch, and answers to your questions:

Lodo, can you send me a link to your story. I'd love to read it.

I think this would really help you, as would reading Karen's and others'. We all have learned quite a great deal along the way, and can help you navigate some of the pitfalls that are bound to come up.

And I guess I should probably make just one post and stick with it. Where should it go, Newcomers?

I'd strongly suggest that you post here in "Infidelity." While some DB techniques are applicable across the broad spectrum of marital problems, there are dynamics unique to affairs that will have a bearing on your approach. Plus, just the fact that everyone here has DEALT -- or is currently dealing -- with infidelity in their own marriages will bring great comfort and advice to you, tailored to your sitch. I will warn you, though, this isn't the best Forum to go to if you're merely looking for "((((hugs, Lynn!))))" and "Keep up the great work!" (although you will certainly get plenty of validation and support here). This is a more no-nonsense, let's-get-on-with-the-work-at-hand group of folks here, and several of us are going to calls 'em as we sees 'em.

So here is the latest. W and I talked last night after she got home from her "date". When she left I could tell DB'ing was working. She said she was proud of me, that she could tell I was changing. And honestly I do feel that, I feel pretty good that I've woke up and started to work on me. But after seeing the OM she seemed more confused again. He pulled her back in.

Yep. This is why "no-contact" is so crucial if your marriage is ever going to have a chance. So long as your wife is being influenced by the chemical "rush" that she gets from her affair, she will NOT be receptive to you, and she won't be in a good place, emotionally, from which to make long-term decisions about her own future.

Basically she wants to date both of us to decide who she wants to be with. This just doesn't seem right, or normal for that matter.

I'd say you have good instincts, Lynn (as you have all along so far). If it feels wrong, it's because it IS wrong, and you need to not be afraid to tell your wife that. There are ways to draw -- and enforce -- boundaries while not "controlling," and allowing your wife to make her own decisions. But you absolutely do NOT -- and SHOULD not -- be "okay" with an open marriage. I'd suggest you respond to her with:

"Wife, I've been thinking about our talk yesterday. And while I don't want a divorce, ethically and morally I CANNOT live in an open marriage. It would appear that we both have some decisions to make."

I started to bring up the fact that I can't do this "dating two men" thing for very long. She asked if that means I'm making her choose. I quickly started to back peddle.

Don't backpedal. Your response should have been (and don't worry, you'll get PLENTY of opportunities to say this in the days and weeks ahead):

"I can't MAKE you do anything. What I AM telling you is, I am not willing to live in an open marriage, and nor can I even begin to WORK on the problems in our marriage when one of us has made the uniliateral decision to invite a third person into it. End your affair, and I think you'll find me willing to work on any and all issues, including mine."

She said she is just waiting for one of us to flip out and she knows she'll run to the other.

Great. And that may very well happen -- most affairs last about 6 months, and less than 10% of affair partners end up married to each other (and 60%+ of those end in divorce). The problem with this is, let's say it happens -- OM "flips out" or otherwise breaks up with your wife. Are you going to want her back? What will have changed about your marriage to ensure that this won't just happen again? Unless you BOTH learn to squarely face the issues that got you to this place, your marriage will be in serious trouble. Add to that the humiliation, damage and downright emasculation that YOU will feel for it to have not been YOUR choice, and you can see the problem here with the "I'll wait to see what she decides" approach.

Trying to control her, not listening to her, not validating her feelings, etc.

There are ways to validate her feelings, without agreeing with her position or her choices.

"(Wife), I can see you're confused, and in pain, and it kills me to see you this way. But I cannot live in an open marriage, and I want to be honest with you. What you're doing is wrong, and I pray you'll make the right decision before I lose my love for you."

I stopped. Apologized, and started listening again. We talked some more about it and I said that if you're going to date us then you have to let me have a chance. You're shutting me out and it's not fair. I really didn't know what else to do.

"Dating" the both of you is not an option, and you need to tell her that -- repeatedly. In fact, so long as she refuses to end her affair and come back and work on her marriage, you need to pull WAAAAYYYY back on even your friendship and your meeting of her emotional needs. You need to treat her kindly, and respectfully, but more like one would treat a sister or a roommate.

Then I started flirting with her, making her feel better and gave her a back rub. I'm really whipped.

RRrrrrr!!! WRONG! Going "melty man" or all "needy/grabby" on her WILL NOT WORK, and, in fact, it is not attractive to her, I can assure you. Every time you do it, while it may "feel" more peaceful to you (and even help you feel better), IT WILL CAUSE HER TO LOSE EVEN MORE RESPECT FOR YOU.

Let me be clear, Lynn: your wife very likely ALREADY has lost a lot of respect for you, based on how you've handled your sitch so far. I'm not trying to beat you up here, just stating a fact, and something we're going to need to deal with. The GOOD news is, no damage is permanent here. There are ways to get the power back to equilibrium in your relationship, and for YOU to begin to assert more control over your own life (notice I said your OWN life, not hers -- that would be "controlling").

I only see three choices right now. Date her while she dating him (which to me seems like playing a game). Divorce her and be done with it (something that I know I'm not strong enough to do right now). Or maybe something in the middle. Maybe I do need to take the kids on a vacation. Somehow detach from her some more. Maybe go dark. I don't know really.

Lynn, Divorce Busting is all about the "third choice." Your third choice is to firmly but lovingly state your boundaries to her, then emotionally detach from her while you work on yourself and making yourself the more attractive option, and "shine a path" back toward your marriage. There are some other aspects to this that we can discuss, like exposure of the affair to other influencers in her life, but for now you just need to know that you do NOT need to EITHER divorce her immediately, nor just let her date. We will help you plow this third row!!

Is the OM married?

I'm supposed to go over there tonight and watch a show with her (I told her that if we only get together and talk on our "dates" then it's never going to seem fun). She came up with the idea so I went with it.

CANCEL THIS. This can be your very first "180." If she asks you why, just say "I'm no longer comfortable with it. We'll talk soon." Learn to start controlling the agenda more.

Put it this way: SOMEBODY has to be in control of the agenda, the timeline, and the strategies and tactics of your marriage, or of its end. Do you think it should be someone who has the marriage's best interests at heart (pro-marriage ... YOU), or someone who is actively working to destroy it at the moment? (your wife and her boyfriend)

Let that last part sink in deep, and think about it. Because, make no mistake, they ARE having talks about how to destroy your marriage. This doesn't make your wife a bad person, or un-saveable. It just means she's horribly confused, hurting, ADDICTED, and she's NOT making good choices and decisions right now. So YOU need to assert yourself and to begin to make the better ones to try and save your marriage.

We're here to help.

Puppy