Where am I at in this thing?

[sandi2]

Hi, you asked me to drop by your thread to offer any advice I might have. I did and wrote a long post and then something happened to it......must have deleted it accidently. So, I won't say everything I did the first time around and just go to the punch line...lol.

Glad you got into Church and renewed you R with God b/c that is the most important thing and being able to truly turn the M over to Him was probably the hardest. We have to do a check-up from time to time to be sure we have still "left" it with God and have not picked it back up to handle ourselves.

I think from everything you have described that your M has very much hope. I am not sure that she is a true WAW, but you must treat her as though she is. By not being a true WAW, I mean that most WAW's are not ready to start dating and making all the contacts and even being so agreeable to seeing different counselors like your wife has done. I may be wrong, but I don't necessarily think that all W's that S from their H's are the typical WAW....if that makes sense. Some have to leave b/c of abuse (which is not the case here) and some leave b/c they just need to get out of a bad situation, and some leave b/c they need time and space away from the spouse for a while. Let's face it, M is not always a bed of roses and we get on each other's nerves at times. If everyone was very honest, a little time apart from our spouses would probably make us appreciate each other a whole lot more than what we do. We start taking each other for granted or just don't treat each other as well as we should, etc. Now before I start getting letters telling me that I should not encourage couples to separate.....that is NOT what I am doing here. But, I kind of think maybe that is what your wife is needing.....just some time apart from you. You said yourself that you were controlling. No wife likes that! The S could turn into a permanent stitch and you don't want that to happen, so that is why you must treat her as though she truly is a WAW who wants a D.

Okay, so I am going to go back and reply to some statements you have posted:

I have been working on myself a lot since the day she left, she says she can see some change, I can also see good change in her. I have noticed that she hasn't pushed the D issue but sometimes she is hard to read

This is very good and reinforces what I've just said about my reasons for thinking she is not a true WAW and just needs some time and space. I believe that she is hoping for things to work out but she is going to be watching to see if your changes "take" for good or if it is only a trick to get her back and then you will revert to your old ways. Therefore, you know those changes must be for life....not just to get her back again. Also, don't bring up the subject to her about your changes, just keep doing them for her to see.

I have been giving her a lot of space and time in which she noticed and said she appreciated. I normally don't call her, I wait on her which sometimes can be a week, that sucks.

See, she is wanting you to know that she does appreciate what you are doing and I think that shows a sign that she is hoping for a future with you if things continue to get better. This is her way of encouraging you (even though she isn't saying it) to continue to give her space and time.....it is working, so keep doing it.

Don't call her first. Don't email, text, or anything first. Wait for her b/c otherwise it is pursuing her and that is pressure on her and will push her away. You don't want that! I know a week without a phone call sucks, but it is very little compared to a lifetime of divorce.

Since we have been apart for 8 weeks there have been no I love you from her,

You are separated. She left you......do you actually expect to hear ILY? If you play your cards right.....maybe in the furture, but don't expect to hear it for a long time, yet. You will set yourself up for disappointment.

I have said it maybe twice.

Don't! The more you tell her you love her, miss her, and want her to come back home......the farther away you are sending her. Do you want that? No, I know you don't and I know how badly you want to express your love and to make up for what you have not done in the past that she needed from you, but now is not the time to be telling her this. You must trust us on this even if you can't understand it. If you've read Michelle's book, you will see what she says about all of this.

She normally doesn't show but very little affection if any. We havn't gone on a date in about 5 weeks.

Again, you have to remind yourself that you are separated and this lady has said she wants a D from you! You are blessed that she has gone out with you at all! She does not have the same feelings that you are having at this time. She does not desire to give you affection!

She called tonight to ask about some car looking which I was game for. I ask her what she was doing Sunday, cause in the past month we talked about going to the circus, but she said she didn't know, I got the drift that was going to be a no, but she said she would think about it.

Her calling you is a good sign, but you should not have brought up about a date and wait for her to bring it up or even hint about it. That was a clue when she said she didn't know. Next time, use the DB techniques about phone conversations. Stick to the subject at hand and be friendly but keep it short and sweet and then be sure that you are the first to say good-bye. Don't push for more. Again....pursuing!

I guess at the this point with no R talks just yet, the lack of affection, and very little sign of her moving towards me I am starting to feel frustrated, however I'm trying to stay focused, work on myself, and be very patient.

Again.....you are separated! It has only been 8 weeks! What did you expect when you heard the word divorce come out of her mind? Apparently, you thought a few dates and ILY and she would be back home. Don't get frustrated friend.....you have a long way to go yet. Stay away from R talks. Wait for her to bring that up.

I have read The Divorce Remedy and my W has a copy too. She did start reading it, but last Friday she said she really isn't into self-help books to much right now.

Whose idea was it for her to have a copy? If it was your idea.....that was not good b/c these are tools for YOU not her. The idea of her not wanting to read "self help books" is a sign of the WAW (I'm afraid) b/c they do not want to read anything along those lines......don't push her to do it.

Anyway when I got and checked my phone looks like I didn't miss much as in no missed phone calls. Some how I don't think I should be to surprised. I think one of might pet peves is if someone tells me something then they should keep there word, if they can't keep there word than why bother, cause to me it's like a lie.

You are making waaaaay too much out of this! She could have meant that in just a "friendly" sort of way, like, "I'll call ya".....but you are making it sound like a vow! Here is a prime example of you trying to control her and the stitch. She is free to do whatever she wants to do and there is nothing you can do about it.....remember you gave it over to the Lord, so get off your high horse here. It is not the same as a lie. People can forget, they can get distracted or tied up. Not a good PMA on your part.

Here is another example of you trying to control:

When I got up this morning I noticed that she sent me a text message about coming over around 8:30 to 9:00 to go do some car looking. Funny thing that I noticed was that she sent it at nearly 3:00 in the morning. Anyhow when she got here and we were getting in the truck I laughingly said are you having a hard time sleeping over there, she said yeah sometimes that air mattress goes down and I air it up, I laughed and then said well in meant when ya sent that message.

I know and she knows what you were really doing! You were fishing for information. Don't do that. You can't disguise it with a "laugh".

Anyway so she had a girls night out, which was more in since she was just at a girlfriends house catching up on general stuff, watching a movie, and talk of a photo shoot.
Course I had to ask if she would give me give me some photos afterwards and she said yes.

So, there you go.....fishing for more information and then you wanted proof! The request for photos. Yep, don't deny it.

Also forgot to mention she said that she was wanting to get back into church, however she goes to a different one than I have been going to, but I don't care I'm thinking good, FINALLY! Told her that I wouldn't mind going with her some time but she said she didn't know if she was ready for that yet.

If you had just told her you were very happy that she was wanting to get back into church and left it at that.....it would have been great. However, to go on to tell her that you would like to go with her......that was pursuing. I guess it must be hard for men to understand that it is pushing the W away when they do that. You must be very careful and let her do the suggesting or inviting you.

My W did call as she said she would, so that was cool I was proud. Talked to her for about 10 minutes about how our days went which was well. She wants to swing by tomorrow to see if I can fix a light on the pick-up. She may be here 30 min to an hour not as long as I would like but I'm trying to look at every opportunity as chance to be friends and let show her the good in me and then pray that all the opportunities grow into piecing our marriage back together. So wish me luck and pray too I would appreciate it very much.

It's almost funny in a way how LBH's look at the clock and watch the minutes about everything their WAW does,when in the past they could have cared less. Again, try to be calm and relaxed and don't expect any more than what she has come there to do. Let her lead in any of the conversations. Don't ask her to stay or go somewhere to eat. You need to play a little hard to get. don't be quite so available for her whenever she needs something done. you said you felt like the only time she called was when she needed something from you, well......

Well I'm pretty certain that she has some self conflict. I think it does come across confusing for the old me and the new me, even the counselor said that it would be hard for her to understand how I could change so fast, but that is due to my personality type. She should become less confused as time goes on as long as I stay consistent in my change. I know that I have a lot to prove to her.

As you said before, she may not have the support group that you do and you don't know what all God may be doing inside of her heart. You must give Him time to do His work in her. That takes patient b/c our time is not His time and our ways are not His ways. She is confused by your quick changes and it almost appears to her (example...the garden) that you are more happy without her than with her, which probably hurt her ego. Hopefully you explained that away.

Right now she has very and I mean very low confidence and self esteem. I did admit that part of that was my fault for not supporting her like I should have. I did tell her that she is a very strong woman. So she ask me "So what are my strong points?" She is really searching for a lot right now cause she is lost. I did tell her a couple things but she needed to get to bed since it was late.

Now...here is your clue!! She does feel very low. Yes, she does have low self esteem and she is looking for somebody to feed her ego. If YOU don't do it.....she will find another man to do it! That is exactly what I did. When she asked you to tell her more.....she was crying out for more ego food. So, be sure that you do that whenever you have an opportunity. Thank God that she is looking to you for it.

She continues to bring up the past and I have sincerely apologized to her several times. She does say that she can see good positive change and wants to she if I remain consistent. What frustrates me is we talk and I attempt to give her explanations to the questions that she ask she will get mad, shut down, and withdrawal. She is asking so I do my best, but when she pulls away like she always does I end up looking like the a$$ and I'm damned if do and damned if I don't. Also she made a comment to me that she was turned off to me, her being mad at the time, I wonder if that should fall under believe nothing you hear and half of what you see.

I know this is very frustrating for men. It is hard for women to put things that happen in the past.....in the past, where it belongs and turn lose of it. It was all these things that happen over a period of time that caused her to leave you and she is struggling with it. Men and women do not deal with their problems the same and they do not have the same thought process. That is why when she starts to get mad and shut down, you get frustrated and feel like an a$$.

As I said previously, she does not have the physical desire for you that you do her right now. Men look at the touchy-touchy stuff as a sign for sex (usually) where women don't necessarily look at it as that. If it is a soothing rub-down to help her relax....that is the way she sees it, whereas, you may see it as a build-up to more physical touching that may lead to sex. Stop pushing with the hugs and let her do them. Don't ask for any hugs or any physical touch.....that is a big turn-off for most women.

I have given way more than two cents worth, but I think if you will stop with the R talks for now, it will help a lot.

As for the counselors.....I have doubts in counsleors b/c so many of them have a document that they can get off the Internet and have no professional training in that field. The couple ends up having a battle scene in the couselor's office and then are told that a D is the only way to find happiness. Unless you get a pro-marriage counselor that is "solution based" to help you find a way to work the M out....I don't personally think her going with you to just any counselor will help.....might even make matters worse. However, if you have found one as I have described or even a Christian counselor......perhaps.

One thing for sure......if God is in it and you allow Him to be in control of this.....He can do more than any counselor. It is tough, but it could be a lot worse. She could have had another man and an affair. Thank God for the fact that she hasn't. There is still a lot going for you. If God be for us, who can be against us? Right? Right!

I know this was extremely long and I will try not to do that each time, but had to catch up.

Take care and God bless.
Sandi