Matilda, I think moving back into the bedroom is too big a step. I think the steps will need to be smaller--holding hands, light kissing, sitting together on a couch watching a movie.
She bought a couch last week for her entertainment room. She will have her large-screen TV installed soon. She asked me if I would watch a movie with her sometime.
Sleeping together will probably have to start off as an intermittent thing, and then I would retreat back into my space the next night (like dating, again). I won't move forward without an invitation.
I think learning to be dance partners will keep us busy for now.
However, you are correct in that I will have to be willing to move into greater intimacy when the opportunity presents itself.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
I understand, CL. I was actually thinking of saying "sleeping in the same room, but no sex"....but thought that might be too bold. Watching a movie together and certainly your dancing is a good start!
However, why do you think your wife was saying "he won't touch me". YOU are waiting for an invitation from her and she may be waiting for you to make the first move. Maybe you should send her an email since she does a better job of communicating that way!
Maybe the reason she "sleeps elsewhere" is because she is not getting it from you? It's pretty common knowldedge that women want a man who behaves in male ways.
Not tolerating extreme disrespect and your wife having sex with other men is not "Alpha". It's just normal male behavior. Ignoring it and giving it a denial name like "sleeping elsewhere" doesn't make you patient and understanding. It makes you a submissive doormat. How many women are attracted to that?
Again , hard truth, like it or not. Are you posting here so people can tell you have a nice weekend dancing and to validate your inaction or do you want change. You seem to dismiss any real advice that doesn't validate your submissive, do nothing exhistance.
As to a previous post , yes I have read all of your posts. If I could scream it through the keyboard I would. DO SOMETHING!!
You think she will wake up one day and see all of your changes. In reality you are being the opposite of what she is crying out for, you to step up and play the man in this relationship.
You even get the same advice from your shrink about being a conflict avoider, but you know better right ?
How does the conversation go when she doesn't come home at night anyway ? You've never really addressed this. You gloss over it like it doesn't matter. This is the root of her disrespect and you seem to avoid it and hide from it. I'm gonna take a wild guess and say she does not find this trait attractive.
Tmite, I agree totally with your post, you managed to put into words what I have been thinking for a while.
CL, I've read your posts on this board and you seem to give out very sound advice to others but things seem to be different when it comes to your own sitch. When reading your sitch it sounds as if you tip toe around your W too much and you are ultra cautious, you may see it differently but thats how it reads back to me and maybe others.
When I was in a similar position to you in my sitch the advice I was given by a fellow member was to "break the ice" with W. At the time I had no idea what he meant, but what he was saying was make a move on W. I thought no (censored) way but he insisted I give it a try.
Anyway, I tried and got the expected refusal, but I think W took at as a statement of my intent as very soon afterwards we were ML on a fairly regular basis. Lanzo - No Way !!! Lanzo - We ML
So you won't know unless you try. I not saying put real moves on W if you're not ready, but I mean start moving things forward. W has just bought a new TV, a new couch, shes asked if you want to watch a movie sometime, What are you waiting for ? I think you should already have your movie evenings planned. Lanzo - movies with W There is an olde English saying A faint heart never won a fair ladys hand". Are you of faint heart ?
Tmite, Lanzo, and Matilda, Thanks for the honest feedback and the 2X4.
I think what I'm doing is waiting for the sleeping elsewhere to stop before I move forward. You're both saying to move forward in spite of it.
Break the ice is a useful phrase.
It's hard to want to get close to your W after there has been a sleeping elsewhere episode, or she has asked you get a PT job because she hasn't managed money for the past several years. It's hard to break that cycle.
Our most recent conflict involves my W asking me to work PT, in addition to full-time work, and the cooking job, which I assist. I told her no, that I would not work additional hours; that I contribute enough to the household finances.
She wants to look for another PT job in addition to the one she has. She says that she has been losing sleep over financial worries.
She got angry implying that a real man would do whatever it takes to manage the family budget. The problem is though that impulsive and overspending is her problem. I don't see where I have to work additional hours to compensate for that.
I wrote her an email this morning, offering to take on a greater role with the weekend cooking job, freeing up more of her day.
Tmite and Lanzo, I will think about your comments and about what I can additionally do to move things forward. I think movie-time on the couch is the next step. I also need to make sure my W doesn't bully me into doing working too much and losing a healthy balance of work/rest/play. You talk about lack of respect. Holding my ground, by insisting on fairness with my W in negtotiating conflict is something I need to practice.
Maybe, I need to start showing-up and sitting on that couch on a regular basis. Maybe, I need to get a stack of movies from the library this week. I'm not ready to ML. I don't see the point in confronting her about the sleeping elsewhere. Maybe I should call it something else (I'm not sure what).
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
[/quote]She got angry implying that a real man would do whatever it takes to manage the family budget. The problem is though that impulsive and overspending is her problem. I don't see where I have to work additional hours to compensate for that. [quote]
And it takes a "real man" to not give into this kind of behavoiur from his W, and stand his ground givin why W wants him to take on extra work.
CL,
I do understand what you are saying about being able to get close to your W givin the circumstances but,I do have to agree that you may need to take that first step with intamacy. It may be a matter of she needs to know that you still want her. Movie time seems like an excellent start.
JAK
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
I think what I'm doing is waiting for the sleeping elsewhere to stop before I move forward. You're both saying to move forward in spite of it.
Hi CL,
There is a danger that the situation of W occasionally "sleeping elsewhere" and you waiting for her to change could be accepted as the norm, and your inactivity could be be taken as a signal to her that this behaviour is ok and doesn't offend you. So on this point I think the onus is on you to change, do something different. I mean you come across as a sensitive, caring guy, you read books, you write poetry, you have many qualities a woman would like, but a woman also likes romance, excitement, mystery maybe a little danger and it could be that when W "sleeps elsewhere" she is finding these things. What can you offer W along these lines to complement your good qualities. Lighten up maybe, analyse things less, possibly be a bit more spontaneous.
This may sound a bit harsh but maybe W finds you a bit boring. I say this cos she says she doesn't want a party pooper in Hawaii, and she questioning your ability to withstand a 9 hour flight, Come on, people do it all the time, but yet she has some doubts about you. The thing you have in your favour is she's asked you to go (and wants you to go) so get with the program, get excited, join in with the planning, have fun. act like you really want to go.
The watching movies with W is a good start and you say you could maybe treat it as a date, hold hands , light kissing etc, but how will W know you want to make this a date unless you let her know, again I think the onus is on you to make things happen. If you're not sure how to ask, send her and email, or even just turn up like you said in your previous post, but don't post here about it, just do it and come back and tell us.
Moving back into the bedroom together is another move which will be down to you. You've described how it could be done, sleeping together intermittently is how you described it, it may be the case that you just need to get on with it. I mean you can get playful with W, joke about it, tell her "you're coming to get her", slap her butt anything like that. Google the word flirtation and read up on the importance a women place on it, maybe a little bit of flirtation may get things going. If she rejects you or anything like that, you've at least signalled your intentions. At the moment W may be thinking that you are more interested in reading books and writing poetry than making a pass at her.
You said the time is not right to ML with W and you maybe a long way off that, that may be the case, but maybe ML is something W wants and wants from you. I mean if she's discussing your sex life with someone, it could be that she wants one.
Finally, on the PT job and you contributing more to the household budget, I'm with you on this one, stick to your guns and stay tough with finances.
Lan, Thanks so much for taking time to put your thoughts together and giving me your impressions of my situation. I will think about what you're advising, and be more intentional about connecting with my W.
I think you're right. She is sending enough signals that she would like more connection, so it's time to start experimenting and see what happens.
It's time to start moving away from the roommate phase.
She's backed-off the PT job request, and has accepted my offer to take on more of the cooking role.
Don't underestimate how dancing has increased the quality of our lives, and how it's allowed me to develop some of the qualities you think I should be striving for. I'm no longer just a guy who reads books and writes. Dancing has been a stretch for me, and is a form of therapy for me IMO.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
I think that Lanzo has done a very good job of putting it into a perspective for all of us actually. I hope that you will be able to put it into action, and with a positive outcome.
Like you have said feel the fear and do it anyway. I have always remembered that about you.
JAK
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
Watching a movie together and certainly your dancing is a good start!
