infidelity

[hoosiermama]

Okay, moving over from the newcomers' forum to address how to cope with this particular topic, which seems the most difficult for me right now.

My H is a hospital chaplain and in the process of becoming an episcopal priest (recently he converted from Catholicism in order to pursue priesthood). Three months ago he changed hospitals for a better job--little did I know how much it would disrupt MY life! While getting a tour of his new place, he met an old flame from his seminary days. She's a NICU nurse, and over 20 years ago he left his Catholic seminary when he fell in love with her. She dumped him just a few months later. When he told me he had run into her, I jokingly asked if I should be worried--well, half-jokingly anyway, because there was just a little too much energy when he related the story. Well, in the past couple of months he's managed to get himself assigned to NICU and another unit around the corner. The second week of May he arranged to do a "blessing of hands" for the nurses on those units, which apparently led to a few in-depth conversations with this nurse. About a week or so later, they talked about further "exploring their feelings" for each other (we all know what that means), pledging to do so from a base of "honesty and healthiness" and perhaps planning to spend the rest of their lives together. Two days after that conversation, H dropped the bomb on me--ILYBINILWY, I need space, I'm not happy, I want a separation. Denied having an affair, still denies having an affair--says she refused to have an affair with him because she "doesn't do that." I found out by reading his email. Yes, I'd do that again--I had no idea what was going on, my daughter was hysterical, I had just quit my job, he had a drastic personality change--so I viewed it as similar to snooping around if you're afraid your child is on drugs or suicidal. And there was a very neat timeline of this emotional affair--not 10 days old, but exciting enough to leave his family over. Along with several Druid prayers that he sent her; she practices Wicca.

Since then he's moved out, and things have gone from "I'm sorry I'm putting you through this" and "I just need to let things settle in my head" to "I can't stand to be in this house" and "I'm done, this marriage is over." He initially refused counseling, then agreed to one session to have the marriage "pronounced dead," to a process aimed at facilitating communication. We begin in about 10 days.

About a week after I found out about her, I sent her an email asking her to stop pursuing the relationship with my H. I was succinct, polite, and respectful. She wrote back and cc'd H; she was supporting all of us in this, including my D; they have a "deep connection" based upon similar spirituality and worldviews (episcopal is similar to Wicca??!); she has "prayed and meditated about how she can best serve in this space" but "withdrawing from the relationship would not be consistent with the healing path she has set out for herself." I replied that the way she could best serve in this space was to vacate it! Geez--I found out she's just as delusional as H is, who thinks our marital problems are all my fault, that a divorce will be the best thing for D, and that we're incompatible and have always been miserable. Of course that's how he feels; he has to feel that way to justify his behavior. He's euphoric and giddy in love, and that's all that really matters to him right now.

So I'm doing my best DB'ing, and we have superficial conversations about D and visiting arrangements, as well as the latest wonderful things he's doing at work--all in the NICU, of course. (Yes, I bite my tongue and say--wow, that sounds stressful.) I know this isn't the crux of our marriage issues, but I know that he will push forward to divorce as long as the A is going on, which makes me feel helpless. There are days/evenings when D can't reach him, and she wants to talk with him--which makes her upset; I know where he is, and it really makes me angry to see her upset while he's enjoying himself. He and D are on vacation,left this morning (we were supposed to have gone together, of course) and I'm looking at this time to explore some 180's and learn to be selfish. But I could use some guidance about how to cope with this part of things. I am finding a bit of ironic humor in the situation--my H, hospital chaplain, priest wanna-be, leaves his family for a Wiccan woman because he believe it's their destiny to be together finally. Okay, sometimes it's funny; at the moment it pisses me off. Any suggestions or guidance?!

[hoosiermama]

Okay--specific question here. H has been on antidepressants for years--for anxiety, he thinks. (So have I--don't do menopause without it, is my motto!) A few months back--late January, February?--he switched to a different med. I wasn't aware at the time, but it's a relative decrease in dosage so that he's getting about 25% of the medication he was previously taking. In April, he began pursuing an old girlfriend, in May it became an emotional affair and now is probably physical; he announced a separation 2 days after they acknowledged feeling attracted to each other (which rapidly progressed to "it's fate that we're meant to spend our lives together").

Cut to the question--we have a sister-in-law who is a psychiatrist. His family, while initially concerned about his behavior, has now cut me off after talking with him; who knows what he's told them about me. Should I ask the SIL to try to find an opportunity to talk with him about the possible effect of the medication change on his behavior? He's had a few significant personality changes. I've emailed her--once, succinctly and specifically--to ask if I should be concerned about this, and she hasn't replied. I would have expected more objectivity from her, but again, she's always been closer to him than to me and I don't know how he may have painted this to her.

Any thoughts? Please?

[LL44]

Hi and sorry to see you here, but you will find good support.

I don't know whether you should approach your sil or not. I am bad at those type of questions. That's bad they have cut you off, do you think she would be open to listening to you? Maybe an email? Maybe nothing though, maybe its not your place/business anymore....

One other thought was to cancel the MC appt. This would show your H that you have dropped the rope. You can calmly tell him that there will be no MC when there is a third person involved.

withdrawing from the relationship would not be consistent with the healing path she has set out for herself."

Um, ok. Wow. No more contact with her, and no more listening to H's stories of work. That's not your place anymore. Be busy, politely tell him you have to go. Keep conversations going only if they involved your daughter. I know this hurts, but you have to let go. It doesn't mean the marriage is over. But right now, it means you have to let go. Down the road, things might change, but protect yourself now.

You have to remove yourself from their world. Seriously. Emotionally withdrawal and work on your 180's and be very selfish. I might have missed it, but how old is your D?

Take care.

[hoosiermama]

Thanks. Daughter is 12--really bad age for all of this, I think (not that there's a good one, of course).

He's consistently denied that there's an affair, even an emotional one except during the first week of our separation. However, I know otherwise and he's certainly behaving otherwise.

I'm new at this, and it's all a little confusing. How do I know when dropping the rope is a good idea and when doing a 180 and being a good listener is a good idea? I don't call him (except to find out when he's picking up D, specific questions related to that). With the MC, I have pushed so hard for it (earlier, before I caught on fully to DBing), and I'm fairly sure that the MC will be the one to tell him that MC is a waste of time when there's a 3rd person--that way he can't lay the blame on me (I'm to blame for everything else in the world, of course). Definitely no more contact with OW--it was something I did to empower myself, and I think it was effective in doing so. But it was a one-shot thing.

I am surprised that my sil has cut me off. Her husband doing so is not such a surprise, but I thought she knew me better than that. My contact with her through this has been by email.

I've been trying to be selfish, and I know I'm coming across as detached and that he's noticed. I have a long way to go on that, of course, but it's only been a few weeks. I know this will take a long time to resolve either way.

[LL44]

How do I know when dropping the rope is a good idea and when doing a 180 and being a good listener is a good idea?

Doing a 180 and listening are always good ideas. Just be guarded, I suppose, when H tries to 'use' you as a friend, when he is clearly hurting you with his decisions.

Dropping the rope will empower you. You can remind yourself that you cannot control your H's actions. You can control what YOU allow in your life. Enough begging/pleading for MC. He has got to want to go. Otherwise, its a waste. I would honestly cancel it, and tell him why. Let him blame you, you cannot control that. When he starts in on blaming you, say neutral things like "I am sorry you feel that way" and things like that.

Keep up the detachment (it'll do wonders for your self esteem). It'll get easier. You don't have to 'let go' of your marriage for good, just for now.

[hoosiermama]

Okay, just to clarify--I haven't asked for MC for a few weeks (this has been going on 4 weeks now). He went from refusing counseling to agreeing to one session to end things to more of a process. Yes, it's possibly part of his justification. However--and it's a big however--I keep hearing about how I was the one who quit MC 3 years ago. Over and over he's reminded me. The reason I quit was because it was his IC for a couple of years before it was MC, and the guy was very biased (he should never have agreed to it to begin with) and knew nothing about me, and projected a lot of issues that just weren't mine. Now H remembers me saying "I'm not the one with problems," which I never would have said. I pressed then to find a different MC, which he didn't want to do, and he believes that he pulled out of the marriage emotionally at that point (I don't, but that doesn't really matter). So--if I cancel the appointment, he'll have plenty of material to build his wall.

He's also very therapist-savvy, being in a related field himself. If the counselor presses him about the affair, or says (as I expect) you can't work on this one while pursuing an A, it will have a lot more weight than if I say it. This one, I've been told by folks I trust, can cut thru his BS, and while he may not hear it now, it will be the MC confronting him and not me, so he can't automatically discount what she says. And at this point, he does want to go. He may have his own agenda that he may or may not be aware of, but I trust that she will call him on his crap. He may or may not hear it, but it's the best shot I have at being solution-based and not blame-based.

I do see what you're saying, but I think that given the history, cancelling would be a negative thing.

[hoosiermama]

Well, I emailed my sil, the psychiatrist. She said she hadn't replied to my previous email (in which I expressed concerns because of H's personality changes) because she didn't know what to say. Hmmm. And she cannot "interfere" with his medications because she has to keep her family and work life separate. That's never been an issue before; I can think if several instances in which she's recommended a particular medication or discussed whether a particular problem may be medication-related. I would imagine this is the last I'll hear from her. Geez, I wonder what awful things he's said about me to result in this cut-off.

The hard part for me is that his family is my only family. I'm an only child, both parents are long dead and I haven't had any contact with extended family since childhood. I love my nieces and nephews, and if this doesn't resolve I'll lose them too. Obviously I can't count on any support from my in-laws. His parents don't know yet about anything; they will have a cow, and then they will cut me off too. This sucks on so many different levels.

[hoosiermama]

I was just paying some bills online and noticed in my account summary that it looks like H stopped and picked up a bottle of wine and a "take and bake" pizza when he spent the night with OW Thursday. She lives on a horse farm near the west side of the furthest west suburb of our city--no other reason he'd be picking up pizza miles and miles away from home.

On one hand, this is going to be fairly easy to track; I don't think H even knows that online banking is fairly specific. I don't plan on letting him know any time soon; it's his own fault for never taking any financial responsibility. So it appears that the EA is now a PA, which I knew was just a matter of time. It still hurts, tho.

HOW DO I COPE WITH THIS??? And still DB??? Yeah, I know the statistics, I knew this was going to happen, I knew it would get worse before it got better. Those are all intellectual; this hurts on a gut level. This is my husband--the man I supported while he got his master's degree and clinical residency so he could be a chaplain, the man who is working toward being an episcopal priest, and he's sleeping with a woman who practices Wicca who he left his family for because he believes they're meant to be together for life!!!!!!! I wonder if they said some kind of Druid grace over the pizza....

This is just nuts!!!

[hoosiermama]

Ok, ok, I've been doing all the wrong things. Out of desperation, which is wrong in itself. I should know better, but I've had >48 hours of being alone and talking to no one except my dogs (who are good company but not much for conversation). Shouldn't have contacted the SIL, shouldn't have obsessed about the OW and A. Should be working on GAL, 180's, taking care of me. I've never been any good at "self-care," as we call it in my profession, and especially after the past several years of being somewhat depressed and overwhelmed by work at church and at home. I've spent my life taking care of other people, and because it was the path of least resistance, not even acknowledging my own needs. How do you get back on track with that?? I'm serious. I really don't have a clue. Y'all are the only support I have at the moment, and I really need some help.

[sgctxok]

Hi hoosiermama,

I really feel for you. Really.

I came here 2 R after my divorce. My exH was a Catholic seminarian, I worked for the order when we met. And like you, my H's family was pretty much my family. And since I didn't tell my church friends about stuff that was going on, they dropped me when I divorced him.

You are most likely in for a really long haul. You're right...he can play a therapist game that you can't win.

This does not mean it's hopeless.....and I usually say there's a lot more you can do with real giving than just GAL.

But for you.....LRT....GAL.

It's time for the self care for you.


So how do you do it..........Do you have any girlfriends?

What I found was .... my NEIGHBORS were awesome. These were not my friends at the time.....but one gal taught me how to take care of myself again.

We started walking together. I had already lost weight and started growing my hair again. And she told me about some clothes styles she thought would look good on me. Mostly, she was a good example.

Find someone...just grab onto them, or go get a haircut or talk to a makeup counter lady..........or heck with it ... get a whole spa day and socialize with those women --- see what they do.


I learned that taking care of yourself really well, DOES take away all that crappy anxiety.

It will work for you.



(I was just in the Indy mini-half marathon...of course, I did a lot of walking......I love Indy.....I'll do it again)

I'll keep checking in.


It will be ok.