Thanks for your reply. I can see what you mean about the letter and the link to the website. I read your post a number of times and I understand that I don't 'get it'. I 'get' that I 'don't get it'. I think it does break something in me (I often have fantasies about seeing the lady at a wedding or something and then going up to her and hitting her). He is an intelligent man, and a trained counsellor himself, and really I don't think it would be good to make any suggestions at all, now understanding how I don't 'get it'.
Originally Posted By: DanceQueen
I have to say I am a bit concerned about your thought process. I think you need to pull back from the situation even more and stop believeing that there is a magical fix for any of this, and take more responsibility within yourself - as I said in my other post to you on this thread. I was a bit surprised when your response to me was "no one can be blamed for what happened". Urm...well, that is one way of looking at it, and the word blame really doesn't even need to be used ... but I think your response really missed my point. I think if you could look a bit more reasonably at your past actions and just accept what it has done without worrying about blame per se, you will be in a better position to move forward. Especially now in the light of you saying that when your husband finally admitted his childhood sexual abuse to you, that you handled it poorly. These are the things we really need to accept that we messed up on and own it entirely, not run from it...I hope I am making any sense.
This is something I am going to need a little more clarification on, because I don't really understand what you are saying and I want to - I want to learn as much as possible. Firstly, when I said that no-one can be blamed (subtext - I can't be blamed I suppose) what I meant was that it wasn't intentional. I was 19, suffered severe depression and a nervous breakdown, was on all sorts of medication (again which play havoc with your libido), had no sexual experience, never had an orgasm, never masturbated etc etc. I did everything I could to put it right, endured horrible counsellors who were either useless or frankly unprofessional, cried for years and years. Finally I took a course of action which I not only considered disgusting, but also a taboo and against everything my church culture preached. Both of us acknowledge that it was probably the greatest act of love I ever showed H. I guess all this is now immaterial, as we are where we are, but I wanted to show you I tried.
Now, I feel utterly devastated that the effect my issues had on my H may mean he is going to turn and walk out on me and our 4 children. I understand (as much as is possible) how he feels, I listen to what he is saying, I wouldn't even blame him if he did go. I don't talk to him about it, there is definitely no sexual contact from me - how can I pull back any further? How can I take more responsibility? How can I own it any more than I already have? I am asking these questions respectfully.
What I am wondering if you are saying is that this really is an impossible situation, there is no recovery from it and really I just have to let him go. The sooner I accept that, the sooner I can 'move forward' (ie without him). Is that what you mean?
Also, for clarification, what I actually said when he was brave enough to tell me about the abuse, was that I felt very upset by it for him, sadly I did not think it was something I was able to handle (that was during my nervous breakdown) and I encouraged him to seek professional help. Why I feel so ashamed of that reaction is that I was putting my own needs above his. I have apologised many times for this reaction (I know that probably won't help).
So please, if you have time, help me understand what you mean!
Me:36 M:16 D final: 08/09 Ds:10&5 Ss:8&3 Bomb 3xPA 200 sexual encounters 15/06/08
Happy - thank you for your post. You did clear up a lot of stuff.
NO I do not mean to imply there is no hope. Also, no matter what you have done that may have hurt him, he and ONLY he is still responsible for his own actions. So if he walks out on you and your children, that is not *because* of what you did. It will be *because* he makes that choice for himself. Yes he will make that choice based on how he feels about the two of you and your relationship. But the responsiblity for him walking out will ALWAYS be on his shoulders only. OK? So try very hard to get that part, too. He is responsible for his decisions and actions.
I am NOT saying there is no chance of recovery, either. There is always a chance. But... to put it into perspective, you really must begin to face that *maybe* your marriage will not survive, and yes you did contribute to the problems in the marriage, and yes take responsiblity for them. But I think that taking responsibility for your mistakes is different than taking blame for them. Try to search within you for this difference. Because when we come to a point where we are trying to wiggle out of "blame" it causes us to look elsewhere to point fingers. But when we fully accept *responsibility* for our actions, it is actually an empowering feeling, and you stop trying to wiggle out of it.
You are doing very very well, so I dont want you to be discouraged. No one in your position has it easy and it is one of the hardest things you will ever have to do. But this is a huge test of courage for your character. You will have a chance to prove to yourself that you are a bigger, stronger and better person than you ever gave yourself credit for. This will be true whether your marriage survives or not.
One more thing - this is very personal but I will tell you because it might help you - not only did I have childhood sex abuse issues, one of my children was sexually abused, too. This was the worst thing to happen to me - even worse than my own sexual abuse, of course. When you are an abuse survivor, you do everything you can and more to protect your children...and then you find that you still couldn't protect them after all. All your best efforts were a waste because a predator will out-think you every time.
Anyway, with my child, the abuser was caught and went to jail. My child did have to testify in a hearing once, and that was it. In other words, the best possible scenario occured, even though the whole thing was still worse than anything I could have ever dreamed would happen. But my point - my child has done very well considering all that happened. There will always be scars...but the abuser going to jail was a big deal in the recovery to our whole family.
But how often does this happen? Nearly NEVER. In most cases, the child never tells. They live with the nightmare and then the aftermath for their whole lives. They will even still be in contact with their abuser and never confront them. They can have an amazing ability to compartmentalize the abuse into something they barely acknowledge as having ever occured. All at the same time, they live in a weird, hollow, non-reality where there are secrets and they constantly question their own self-worth.
This is meant for you to understand your husband a bit more. There is a difference in the healing pattern of a child who saw retribution paid to their abuser, and a child who never confronted the abuse at all.
Hang in there HC - you are doing better than maybe my post gave you the impression. I just want you to stop looking for an outside answer that will make this all better. Instead, I want you to see your responsibility for past actions, and I want you to see that your husband is not in good place within himself (which is not your fault).
I think when he initially told me he was unhappy it was like a bolt out of the blue. I didn't understand at all. He seemed to give alot of reasons and we never seemed to get to the bottom of it. At that point I thought he was just having a MLC, I couldn't believe he was prepared to walk out on us.
More recently the sex/abuse/10 years stuff has come to the fore, and obviously I can see clearly the part I played. I think I can feel more empathy for him knowing how he has suffered. Yesterday NTE and Bagheera gave me a unique perspective on what it is like to be a man in our situation. Today you have helped me to understand the abuse facet of it.
Mostly when other people have asked me what is going on and I have told them a summary (mainly because I am sobbing in the corner of the toddler group) I have said our marriage is in difficulty, some of it my personality, some of it his, some of it our own behaviour, some unfortunate circumstances.
I do accept responsibility for my stuff - I think this is why my post here is mostly about my behaviour because I wanted to look at that in isolation. If I had been different in the early days, maybe the rest wouldn't have been history (or maybe it would!).
Thanks very much for sharing your personal story and that of your precious child. It does help me to see him in a different light.
Me:36 M:16 D final: 08/09 Ds:10&5 Ss:8&3 Bomb 3xPA 200 sexual encounters 15/06/08
While it may be part of his nature/drive, given his sexual abuse history, he's wrong about not being able to change. His desires & behavior can be changed, if he's willing to do the hard work to make it so and seek professional help.
You've entered into an area that I will not even attempt to give advice in, although I'll continue to monitor what happens.
Best of luck to you: I hope the silver lining shows up for you soon.
Take care,
Bagheera
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
I guess there is a silver lining already - I could have spent the rest of my life with my H as he is. Distant, unemotional, never quite telling the truth about anything.
I know that I don't know how hard this is going to be, but I think at least some people here might be able to guide me a little on that.
Thanks so much for your time.
Me:36 M:16 D final: 08/09 Ds:10&5 Ss:8&3 Bomb 3xPA 200 sexual encounters 15/06/08
HC - I just feel so sad for you. I am so sorry for my "take responsibility" advice. There is no way you are responsible for his behavior.
I am also seeing your silver lining. I'm glad he finally confessed himself to you, so that you can now know you were not dealing with just the usual detached man and usual marital problems. This one is bigger and beyond most.
If you go over to the infidelity threads, maybe you will get more support from others who have been through anything similar to yours.
Hang in there, sister. I hope you have a good support group around you.
Up until Saturday I didn't know what I was dealing with either - as far as I could see this was something that possibly could be saved. You were only going on the information I was giving you, and I was only going on 10% of the story. Please don't regret the things you said, it certainly helped me to learn very quickly from my mistakes. I am coming out of this a better person, and you contributed to that.
Sadly, ironically, nobody apart from H knew that it was, in fact, an 'Impossible situation'.
I think H telling me who he really is was probably the most loving thing he could ever do. It has left things very, very clear.
For your encouragement, one of the reasons we are talking so well at the moment, is that we are not entering into a 'blame' discussion, and that is something I can thank you for.
Me:36 M:16 D final: 08/09 Ds:10&5 Ss:8&3 Bomb 3xPA 200 sexual encounters 15/06/08
I am sorry to see things turn this way. I would switch to the Infidelity Forum here to get some help. There are a couple of fantastic folks over there as well. You are now facing some really big decisions. Please take the time to pray and make those decisions calmly.
Of course NTE means Happy Camper in addressing his thread, not Dance.
HC - you are quite an amazing woman to be sounding so level headed in this moment of your life. I think you are going to surprise everyone and come out from this mess even better off than you EVER would have been before. The level of dishonesty your husband has shown is something many people just can't get over, and they are scarred for life. But something tells me that you aren't going to be one of those bitter, scarred women. You are going to move forward, in dignity and grace, and start a new life for yourself that will be happy and rewarding.
Hang in there and keep us posted. I hope you have talked to an attorney.
