I suppose if h never has such a relationship (outside of this m) again and eventually learns what "it" was then all is well and in the long run it doesn't matter.
if however h never has such a relationship again (even with me) then in the long run it will matter...he will be seeking that wich he was looking for in the first place in going to her.
or on the other hand is it simply me? simply my lacking of what I desire in a r...what I know a r can offer that I don't get or "feel" here...the open friendship..the laughter..the jokes...the ability to share whatever it is you are feeling and not feel like the other thinks your a nutty basket case but does understand you...the ability to comfortably call to say hi when you want to say hi...not living in fear of rejection.
I accepted that h was rather an island...not one for friends...not one to get out and enjoy life..not one for conversation..not one to come my way...not one to ponder the meaning of the universe...no one for much other than being there if and when you needed him...he was strong, confident, honest, loyal, dedicated and commited to his goals...something has been lost...h is a lover...h is capable of being a friend..h is capable of wanting to live life...wanting to get out there and live...just not with me and it troubles me...what was so wonderful about this ow..who was married when he met her...what was so wonderful about this woman that he wanted to go to her house three times a week (and supposedly not be physical) that he wanted to call her everyday..that he would lie to me so that he could continue being her "friend" that he would leave his home to explore the posibilty of moving on with her (and still not be physical?)
I want to know what their r was all about becuase if h is capable of just being a person himself and not just the business owner I would like him to be that person here...if he cannot then perhaps he should leave and go be with her...at least until she dies..(which should be roughly 7-15 years from now unless she's lying about that too)
I don't know what I'm saying...I'm simply saying that though on occasion h smiles...on occassion h hugs me and almost knocks me over...though on ocassion h talks about things outside of work...I wonder is there a person in there just waiting to come out??
I am afraid to be me around him as I don't know what the hell he wants.
What I'm trying to say (and I send tons of gentle wishes with it) is that you can obsess about what H did with or felt for OW all you want. It wont solve anything at all. It'll attack your own self esteem because you'll be comparing yourself to what you think OW was all about for H... what you think H wanted... not what H really wanted, but your imagination.
You can give it up. You can give H up. or You can live in doubt forever.
Awesome post, char!
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Quote: What I'm trying to say (and I send tons of gentle wishes with it) is that you can obsess about what H did with or felt for OW all you want. It wont solve anything at all. It'll attack your own self esteem because you'll be comparing yourself to what you think OW was all about for H... what you think H wanted... not what H really wanted, but your imagination.
or perhaps h could enlighten me a tad on what it was that he was missing other than simply "that feeling" so that we can work toward making sure his needs are being met..cause as far as I can tell his needs were being met all along!! it was my needs that weren't being met...but for some reason or another h felt compelled to fulfill at least one of her needs and that is being her friend...supporting her when she was low...stopping what he was doing to go and give her a ride...stopping what he was doing to take the time to go and visit her..taking the time from what he was doing to go out to lunch with her..taking the time out of what he was doing to accept an invitation to go out to lunch with her...heck I can't even get h to commit to one night a week set aside for "us" time and this woman had "us" time with him three times a week??
I better just stop venting now cause I know you'll all start accussing me of becoming a waw...funny thing is I have been a waw all along...I just wasn't the one to walk...I was still trying...still struggling to make it work...still holding on to that last shred of hope til the day that shred of hope got thrown away...
tell me again why I should hold on...tell me again why it is that I let h come home...tell me again what it is that I should be happy about in this r with h?? cause right now I feel lonely and sad and like it really wouldn't matter much if he were to leave.
Quoting lostlove: I am afraid to be me around him as I don't know what the hell he wants.
LL
LL --
Is the dilemma for you that you see how h. is with you now, how he was pre-A and how you THINK he was during the A. to ow and wonder what he's capable of giving in a r? Like, the way you imagine he was with ow might be sort of what you want from him (a bit?) but you don't know if he can be that way with you? (I may be projecting a bit here ... so don't mind me). Also, it sounds like sometimes you see glimpses of what you want from h but aren't sure how to get it to come out more fully?
Why do you think you can't be you around him? I struggle with thinking that if I'm ME, well, isn't that WHO he had the a. ON? therefore, if I'm ME, he'll have another one...and if I'm NOT ME I'll lose my mind...sometimes I have a flash of brilliance and think "he had the a. because of his own S*&T and some of my stuff too but it's not because of the ESSENCE of ME" and then I feel better about relaxing for a little while.
What if you let a little of YOU out at a time???
And what if you tried to figure out what brings the HIM out that you love so much?
Pretty early on I realized that one thing that may have drawn h. to the ow was that she let him love her...so, it wasn't my personality or habits or whatever that might have turned him off...but my uncomfortableness at being loved...'course, I'm still working on that one, no?
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
JMHO from a male perspective. H is feeling more comfortable with you to be able to tell/vent to you - as opposed to OW. This includes the swearing and thr gaseous emissions. H's comfort level is high enough with you to be able to totally relax without fear of you being offended.
When men are dating and trying to impress, or not offend; they are very careful with their language and their personal habits. The teeth are brushed, the hair is combed. No spitting, no swearing, no yelling - we're almost civilized!
I think being there for H to vent his professional frustrations to is very important to him. This is where you DB to the max by listening, validating, and empathizing.
From the looks of the last half of your post LL you seem to be expecting H to read your mind. You're going to have to tell H what you want - don't expect him to "just know" what you need. Man brain be thick sometimes, not always catch clues or hints - verbal or non-verbal.
Is this H's busy time of the year as well?
S T R E S S
That can play havoc with the man brain too.
Maybe LL needs to gently suggest to H some possible outlets. A picnic, a drive into the country, whatever unwinds the watchspring of stress. Sox game? A day at the beach? Use your imagination Lady!
Quoting lostlove: or perhaps h could enlighten me a tad on what it was that he was missing other than simply "that feeling" so that we can work toward making sure his needs are being met..cause as far as I can tell his needs were being met all along!! it was my needs that weren't being met...but for some reason or another h felt compelled to fulfill at least one of her needs and that is being her friend...supporting her when she was low...stopping what he was doing to go and give her a ride...stopping what he was doing to take the time to go and visit her..taking the time from what he was doing to go out to lunch with her..taking the time out of what he was doing to accept an invitation to go out to lunch with her...heck I can't even get h to commit to one night a week set aside for "us" time and this woman had "us" time with him three times a week??
Come on, you know what "that feeling" is. It's that feeling you get when someone loves you, is interested in you, wants to learn about you, appreciates all you do for them, is vunerable to you, and sometimes most important, would NEVER even think of stepping on any of the gifts of your time and presence to them.
H's needs weren't getting met all along. No way. He wouldn't have left if they were. Besides, you were a legless-WAW, how could you possibly have been giving H that loving feeling. I know I'd be kidding myself if I thought I was filling H's needs all along. H doesn't want to help you figure out how to meet his needs, at least that's what I'm getting. My H has the luxury of coming here and reading my rants and responding to them later. You don't get that window into H's mind, so you have to keep trying different things, maybe?
What if you could ask what H liked so much about OW and he could answer you knowing it wouldn't hurt your feelings? Is he safe when he talks? I mean, he's already hurt you so much, any more guilt would be almost unbearable, right? Why would he tell you anything about OW if it's gonna piss you off? Because you want him too? No way. Sorry, it wont happen.
I better just stop venting now cause I know you'll all start accussing me of becoming a waw...funny thing is I have been a waw all along...I just wasn't the one to walk...I was still trying...still struggling to make it work...still holding on to that last shred of hope til the day that shred of hope got thrown away...
tell me again why I should hold on...tell me again why it is that I let h come home...tell me again what it is that I should be happy about in this r with h?? cause right now I feel lonely and sad and like it really wouldn't matter much if he were to leave.
you know why... you want your H, you want your kids to have their dad even if he ain't home, you want success, you don't want to lose. it's okay to want these things, ll, it's okay. at some point, if the sitch becomes something you really don't want, then you'll leave, right? don't worry about that today. worry about you, worry about H ~ try to show him how concerned you are about his blues, and how manly he is, and how grateful you are to him for trying
you want to know what it is that h was getting from ow....she thought his [censored] didn't stink...she thought he was the best...she thought he was wonderful...she thought he was a great guy...
gee it's funny that I thought all those things too....
h's feelings grew for her when she "went to bat for him" regarding a billing issue with the rest of the customers on the street...they were going to drop him but she called them up and convinced them not to...to that he felt indeted to her...they had a friendship...when she got sick he took more interest in her...was a support to her when her h was for some reason not...
for christ sake the woman made him a big poster...he did the job he was asked and paid to do...she made a big board with before and after photos and used those tacky sticker letters to write LL's h...get's it done right.
now let's see...
LL thought h was wonderful.. LL thought her h was better than any guy she had ever met.. LL loved her h.. LL adored her h.. LL actually physically worked her a$$ off helping h to build his business LL cooked and cleaned for h LL helped h get where he is today LL took care of h LL loved h LL just wanted a little love in return.
at this point I don't give a flying [censored] what happens...h can leave today...h can leave tommorow...I've never felt so alone as I do when I'm with h and that is how I have felt since long before I married him...sure things were wonderful for the first five years we were together..infact they were better than wonderful...then things went to crap and stayed there...why we married in the first place I don't know...seems now we are stuck together...h wont leave he already did and found he couldn't let me go...I wont leave because I don't want to put my children through the same crap I go through with my parents.
facts of the matter are...
Yes I know "that feeling" I knew "that feeling" was gone...I knew it...but I didn't want to accept that it couldn't be brought back...I wanted for us to spend time together doing fun things to bring "that feeling" back...but h was always too busy...or too tired...or too whatever...
I don't know how h feels but I don't think there is much if any of "that feeling" left in me for him.
the bit of "that feeling" that was there got a tad burnt out over the last year...
I want "that feeling" but I'm afraid it's gone and h doesn't have the desire to do what little it would take to bring it back.
peaceful coexistance is about it..sure from time to time we are friends...but h is not my friend...I am not h's friend...I don't even consider him my h...I don't consider myself his w...we are the parents of two beautiful children who are trying to get along and live life.
maybe something will come of it...maybe not.
h knows what it is I want...as far as I can tell all h wants is a little girl who thinks the world begins and ends with him..that he's a hero..that he's a knight in shining armor...that he's a saviour...well folks LL's not 16 anymore and she doesn't need any damn hero, she needs a friend.
Quote: Gee LL you sound a little like me on MH's thread today - are you having your period too by any chance?
no, just being real....tired of pretending I'm happy..tired of looking at the positives...tired of pretending that is actually working...realizing that I am compromising myself and shouldn't ....realizing that h was right to leave..."it" isn't here and never was!!!
