ms ladybug SQUISHED!

[Dom R]

Another "action" you can take, could be to go through something like "the 5 languages of apology", and look at how you could make a real apology to him, for your part in things(ie: the things he mentioned in his email).
I dont think he's feeling an apology from you.

Making one to him, in a way that registers to him, would be one of the most significant actions you could make, in my opinion.

Why wouldn't he just give mc a try...just to say he tried everything?

He has already very explicitly answered that question to you.
He does not believe you would change, to do what the MC suggested. He thinks you only want to go to MC, to "fix HIM".
That you wont change, and that you think you've done nothing wrong, so you think there's no reason for you to change.

That's why I keep saying that you should make a commitment to him, to try anything that the MC tells you to try.

Saying "i'm open to suggestions", is not the same thing at all.

That is also why I keep emphasising that you should apologise to him; to acknowlege that you did do some things wrong; and to fully acknowlege ALL the things he complained about you in his email.

[Dom R]

Good advice from TwinDad... just one refinement i would suggest:

Eventually he will notice. If he says something, I would just say I have been making some changes in my life and leave it at that.

I would personally suggest going further;
if he says something, to validate and acknowlege what he said. eg:
"After thinking about things, I came to realize that you were right about me [not disciplining the kids enough/....]. "


If he notices, he may just keep silent about it. If he notices and ASKS, however, I think that in your husband's specific case, he would be looking for validation from you.

[ms ladybug]

I agree with the TN thing.
The house cleaning...well he SHOULD HAVE pitched in and done what you suggested. Now, however, he doesn't live there. So, now it's all on me. Including the lawn (which was "his job"). The OCD makes it virtually impossible to have it done to his expectations, but I'll admit that I could try a bit harder in this area.
Disciplining the kids is a tough one. He's very strict, and I kinda let them have some fun (not in any way that they would hurt themselves). I also remember being a kid myself, and I know when d4 wants to be alone and pout, I let her. On the other hand, he says, "don't let her act that way. She's acting like a spoiled brat." He's a big proponent of spankings, and thinks the kids should get spanked all the time. I'm not against spankings, but I think it should be a very last resort, and a rareity. Time outs work well. I had to introduce him to that when our d was little. I think he was surprised at how well it works.

[cat03]

what works with one kid wont' work with the other I've found out. The spanking issue is all too common, usually it is the dad who is more tough, but he actually sees that time out work out.

Above the messy house/car the real issue here is respect, she respecting his opinion he respecting her as his wife, mother of the kids, that is something that is talked during MC. As far as I know, she did acknowledge to him her shortcomings, I dont' see why she has to apologize any further.

Is he not open to MC anymore?

[ms ladybug]

He's not open to mc based on the idea that I won't change, I won't do what the counselor suggests, etc. He's basing that on...well what I told him last week that nothing will change (stupidstupidstupid). And, the fact that our previous mc (before the sep) gave us a handout of "Fair Fighting Rules"...and I didn't follow the rules.

In my email to him, I did change that last paragraph and state that I will do what the mc suggests.

Apologies is another of his longstanding issues with me. I don't apologize well, I don't do it on my own unless asked...I have too much stubborn pride. I really think that right now, it would come across as "you're only doing this because I told you I'm done. Too late."

My email also gave an apology, but again, he thinks it's too late.

[TwinDad]

Ladybug,

I aggree with Cat on the disciplining. Though I think in the short term it might be better to lean a little more towards his standards and try it out. I will be honest, I don't think either me or my W are as strict as your H, but I if I was a little more strict like my W I would probably have a much easier time getting them to coorperate with me. Ultimately this is an area where the two of you will have to talk and decide what is best for the kids.

[Dom R]

My email also gave an apology,...

I really suggest that you read "the 5 languages of apology", and compare what your apology in email, to what they suggest you might do to apologise.

I'm guessing that it will open up other avenues for you to consider in that area.

[jon2911]

ms b,
About him noticing the changes, I think that's something all of us worry about here in Separation. Don't worry, he's watching you very closely, but BS won't work at this point. And really, the changes are about becoming a better you, regardless of whether he wakes up or not.

You sound so much stronger over the last couple weeks, even if it doesn't feel like it. Keep it up!

[picasso]

in my wife's words to me:

"I'm watching every move you make and listening to every word that comes out of your mouth."

In other words, he IS watching you, but still giving you enough rope to hang yourself with at the same time.

Basically, (my W and your H) are doing the same thing: backing off completely and simply watching how we react/change. They are NOT in the situation anymore, but ARE observing with eyes like a hawk's....basically waiting for anything to go wrong.

You and I, unfortunately, are in the position of having to be virtually perfect. They will NOT acknowledge that they are passively watching, but they ARE...do NOT doubt this for one second.

Change you must...but you must do it for YOU because ultimately, if things don't work out, you will have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and KNOW you gave it your best shot, and are a better person in the end for it.


P.S. Pride is your enemy right now. Just something to consider.

[ms ladybug]

I called h last night to remind him that tomorrow morning is "donuts with dad" day at day-care for s2. He said he'd be there, and then said his usual, "I gotta go." He called me back about 2 min later and said, "I feel really bad, but I'm not going to be able to go tomorrow. I can't go to donuts with dad for d4, so I'd feel guilty doing it with s2, and it's really too early in the morning." I was really disappointed, because s2 loves to see his daddy, and it would have been special, but I was upbeat and said, "that's OK. I understand. The kids will do something with you on Father's Day anyway."
He then said, "In case the kids are wondering what to get me for Father's Day (please note the kids ages 2 & 4) this is what I want..." I said, "OK. I'll give them the message."
I then asked him if he'd be going to his grandma's party on Sat. He said, "no. That's my Monday." I told him I thought he was going to try to get it off. He said, "OK, I'll try to get it off. Remind me, OK?"
It felt good that he asked me to remind him. We used to joke about me being his schedule coordinator. If someone would tell him about an upcoming event, he'd always say, "Don't tell me. Tell my coordinator." So, also in a roundabout way (maybe I'm reaching here), it means, "talk to me before Sat."

Picasso, wow, no pressure from your wife about watching your every move adn listening to your every word, huh? But, your right, it IS accurate of what is likely going on.

And, I know pride is my enemy...it always has been.