Holding Pattern

[iamlost]

Well, first of all, I'm really, really sorry it's not going well JWS. It sounds like she feels guilty, and is acting it.

I have a question about these parts:

We talked about how to spilt things up for the appartment. Witch she wants in both our names (because I have a job) she was sounding very final. I eventualy said that I would never give up on her. She thanked me and then said that she had to be honest and felt she was pretty much completely finished and moving on.

I don't understand why she expects you to put your name on her apartment when she is also telling you that she is completely finished and moving on?

I am not sure about the whole appartment thing though. This is so fricken hard. On one hand I want to kick her to the curb on the other hand hold her forever.

I really think that you need to establish some financial boundaries here. She's not letting you hold her forever right now. I don't think you're doing her, yourself, or your relationship any favors by not letting her stand on her own two feet.

I know I can stand on my own to feet and live. She will have to do the same first.

[JWS]

Well were to start.
The first day was hard and then she said she was totally over and yelled at me for walking to close. The next morning I woke in a fall mood determined to put her behind me and move on. However still support Law School. I just don’t care what it means to me I can’t not do all in my power to help her when she asks. When filling out the applications alone in the hotel room we got into it. She let loose on me with some ot her issues. I hear her acknowledged them then agreed with some and disputed others. She was very emotional. She said she could see changes in me but it was to little to late. I just supported her and told her how I knew she could do this. I acted as if we were good and she needed my support.

The rest of the morning she was in a good mood, it really was a good talk and I could see it sinking in. the apartment time was good. We picked a good place. I am very happy about it for her security but it works very well for our pets. During this time she was into me and I told her I wanted to be part of this. She said she knows and appreciates it. After we secured that I asked her not to make it to late, she said it was not.

Then some fun walking around with the dog. That was a good time and we both enjoyed it. Then she started to tell me about her game life and how that was going well. She told me about people she had met on there and stuff, then I messed up huge. I dropped a name that I forgot I had gotten from snooping in the first weeks that she left. She went ballistic. Then I reverted to old me for a while, she shut down and I kept pushing. Finally we got a chance to walk away. We cooled off for about 2 hours then proceeded to drive on. I got to the point where I could not take it. I pulled over and looked at her.

She started to tell me that snooping was her major issue and that she felt controlled and belittled by it. I said I know I snoop because I don’t trust you. I don’t trust you because I never healed I just buried things. But you also lie to me and give me reasons not to trust you. And you never sat me down to say what your problem was. The last time I confessed to snooping you said don’t worry honey its ok then you left that night. We have issues that’s for sure but they are not unworkable. I care for you greatly and am in therapy working on myself and am a changed man.

She asked me to never again snoop, I said would and that I decided that several weeks ago. I asked her not to lie to me and she said she had no reason too. I asked her to please work with me and she said she would. I left her alone the rest of the day. I went to the hotel to see them off today and she was pissy. I gave her a letter I had written and she said she would read it if she did not tear it up. I again said you have my word that I will not snoop but I need to trust you too, she said I could and then left. We stopped in to see her cats, she was very upset. I told her that this is where she belonged and if she wanted to work on things she could be here. I tried for a hung and she said no, then I said maybe you can work on that as well, she said she would. She also was inspecting the house, which I passed. She noticed my DB books (not left out on purpose because I did not know they would be there) I know she was interested because she did a double take.

I know my performance was about a B- but it was hard. Lying in bed I felt walked on. I know she is with someone on some level. She is not wearing her ring and jumpy to the touch (but maybe ai assume that because I don’t trust her) the letter I wrote said, I recognize my flaws and am working on them. I want to support her but can only do it as my wife. She needs to choose between a life a lone free to see other people or a supportive life with me working on things, not at home being smothered but working on things. If she wants my support she needs to put her ring on and stop disrespecting me because there needs to be boundaries. Although it took a page and was nice then that, that is what it said.

What I learned.
She is great but nothing I can’t live without.
I deserve her best she deserves mine.
Freaking out in the first week and blaming her depression hurt my cause and her deeply. I have a compulsion for snooping. Weather it was based in reality in the past or not I do it compulsively now.
There is something left for me in her but she is burying it and hiding it with others.
This has the potential to end or become great.

She has the puppy now for a week to get him to the vet. I will go dark again till the end of the week and then make plans to get him. There is a mutual friends wedding on sat in the city where she is so I asked if we could go as friends but will not ask again.

Overall hard weekend with some progress and ugliness, I think the progress was greater but it was close. I could feel god leading me and when I got in his way, so I will working on letting him do the leading. I know this was long but advice is much appreciated.

[iamlost]

She started to tell me that snooping was her major issue and that she felt controlled and belittled by it...The last time I confessed to snooping you said don’t worry honey its ok then you left that night.

She just told you something really important here. I know it is hard, cause I was compulsively snooping for awhile, too, but I think you really have to stop. I think it would be a meaningful change to her.

I think this also may be partially why you don't want to give up paying for her phone, because you can see who she is calling/texting?

My advice would be telling her you want the phone transferred into her name/her pay for it to indicate that you are no longer going to snoop. You could tell her you don't want to snoop anymore, so the phone bills will be hers now. You're getting the added benefit of letting her stand on her own two feet at least a little bit.

The more she feels you are trying to control her, the more she is going to run from you. That's a good mental image to have when you feel the urge to snoop, is that she is running further away from you every time you do.

[iamlost]

How's it going JWS?

[JWS]

I guess the honest answer is I feel like crap and am being hard on myself. When she left my attatude was poor me and this is all her and what is she thinking.

I knew I had an idea of my own problems and wanted to work on things but felt I could not until she spoke to me. In the self-pity mood I kept snooping witch was part of the very thing driving her away. I made good changes on my self and got the chance to show her and she recognized the changes. Then I blew it again even though I had not snooped in a few weeks it. I just know that she gave me a chance and I blew it.

I am blaming me right now and hope and pray for another chance. At the same time I am not turning from the changes I have made. I know they are good ones and I have more to do. I am doing these things for me and with time she may notice, I am just mad for blowing it this weekend. We did have some positive stuff though and I will try and focus on that. seeing her in a better light is also making me miss her alot again.

you are absolutly right about chaseing her away, every time i do it. I am making this my number one proity for now to stay away from her stuff. maybe accepting some blame for myself here will make me work harder at it.

[iamlost]

Please don't be too hard on yourself. I don't think you blew anything. I was snooping there for awhile, too. BIG TIME. It's extremely painful to not trust your S, and to feel them slipping away from you. You don't want to feel like a fool, but the truth is--the cheating S is acting the fool, and knows it, and so wants to hide it. Knowing where you stand has it's place, but after that it's really something to distance yourself from, especially if you're separated.

Snooping at this point probably won't help you, you already know what her deal is, you're not really gaining any new information--she's been at this same thing for awhile now. And it will push her further away. The only thing you can really do is control your life. She left, but you can still put up boundaries as to what you will accept, and that is NOT controlling. In fact, it's establishing that she can't control you.

Which is why the financial situation still bothers me. She is telling you, she's "completely finished, moving on" you know that she is having relationships with OM, and yet she still wants your complete financial support. I don't think that is fair to you. I think you see that, too, because you keep questioning whether you should continue paying for her phone, whether you should sign on to her apartment.

What do your parents think of this arrangement?

IMO, I don't think she will reconsider working on the marriage or get to a place where she is able to make some good decisions about her own life until in some way you stop letting her cake-eat. Really, I don't. She's got some issues that she is not able to face up to right now, because she does not have to deal with life on her own. Emotionally & financially you are being her husband, but she is in no way being your wife.

Here are the things you can control to a certain extent, boundaries that you can negotiate with her:

What your financial obligations are (if any).
Whether to change status of your marriage (file for legal separation, divorce, etc.)
Your contact with her.

And you know what you can't control:

Whether she contacts/sees OM.
Whether she contacts you.

So, of the things you can control, how can you alter the situation so that she isn't allowed to control YOU?

[JWS]

All I know is that she speaks with other men, several of them. I have no idea what about and have made assumptions that may or may not be true. part of our healing originally i asked her not to have male friends so now she want to do what she thinks i don't want or something. but i don't have the facts so i can't judge. I know she is not wearing her ring and talking a lot to OM and jumpy when i touch her, and does not want me to know what she is up to, but she tells me i can trust her. I don't know, I don't want to, an affair would not end it for me.

My parents and my therapist think that the only thing i can show her is support, and help her achieve this dream, as she helped me. she is confused and building her self up by flirting but i am smart enough to know its not real. If i lose her and she becomes a Lawyer and is happy i can be ok with that.

I can do nothing less then be her husband even if she is not being my wife. that’s the better or worse part. I can't let her control my happiness, i can no longer place that in her. it needs to be in me.

as far as money, half of what i make is hers anyways, and i don't let what little money i have run my life. its just not important. if she was out blowing money at the mall or trips with guys or what ever it would be different, but she is being very responsible in that regard. she is focused on school and only using it for that right now.

All her life she has felt unsupported by her parents and sometimes by me. I have always believed in her but my actions can sometimes not reflect my heart. I want her to see me moving on and working to make myself a better man, while at the same time showing her unconditional love.

I know share your fear of her having her cake and eating too, I might be prolonging some of this but at the same time, there is a set start date for school and some things don't have the time to wait. Trust me i have the same fears, and don't know the right answer.

all i know is that when i look back if i have chosen wrong, i want it to be that i helped her when i should not have, not i turned my back when i should have helped.

[iamlost]

Fair enough, you sound like you've put a lot of thought into it, know what you want to do, and I totally respect that.

[JWS]

I know there are no answers but to me it feels like the only thing that is right and that I can be comfortable with. If my failure is caring too much then i am doomed to always fail, but at least I can be at peace with it.

I am separating the phones and giving her, her own bill, but will be helping with other bills, it’s not the money that’s the issue it her having that freedom and me not having that temptation.

How are you doing with your GALs?? and any more with your mutual friend.
I am continuing with my own goals and GALS and positive thinking, it has gotten me this far and it will take me all the way home. Thank you so much for you help, your words and challenges are so helpful.

[iamlost]

I am separating the phones and giving her, her own bill, but will be helping with other bills, it’s not the money that’s the issue it her having that freedom and me not having that temptation.

I think that's a really good move.

I hope you don't think I was being too hard on you, I was trying to respond to the doubts that you were expressing.

I've come to care a lot about people on this board, and you are definitely one of those people. I just want to see you happy & back with your W. I think it takes an amazing person to do what you're doing for her, I really do.

I believe there is some great happiness in being the best version of yourself, and if anyone finds that, I know it will be you.