For the Guy with Kids and a WW4

[Puppy Dog Tails]

WW-I want to seperate. You move out.
Me-I say I am not leaving.
WW-Ok, since your not leaving, I am leaving with the girls.
Me-Your not taking the girls.
WW-I am not leaving with out the girls.
Me-Your not taking the girls.
WW- SHE TAKES THE GIRLS

OK, H4H, I finished that little scenario for you, but that's not a "Mexican standoff," that's a CAPITULATION if you let her leave with your daughters. DO NOT WAVER in your VERBAL and WRITTEN position to her that "I do NOT consent to you taking the girls out of their house."

This is what's known as a HARD BOUNDARY -- a "dealbreaker." Unless you fight with everything at your disposal to enforce it, it is not a boundary at all. I know what you're saying of "I don't want to put the kids in the middle of it," but your wife has ALREADY put them in the middle of it, and nothing short of your own total capituation is going to keep things calm.

Do you REALLY think it's in your kids' best interest to not only have their parents split up right now, but to also have to leave the home they've come to know???

Puppy

[hopeful4her]

Thank you, Puppy.

I now that I sounded like I was ready to concede, but that is not what I want. I do not want tonight to escalate like all of our discussion about the kids. I have to try to negotiate with her. Try to appeal to her senses. In her mind, she is not breaking up the family. We will still be a family, but in two seperate familial households.

She is quite the thinker, huh.

I think that I will reiterate what I have told her in the past. She has always said joint custody. She just wants to have physical custody. I am willing to have them 50/50 at the least. I don't know if I should just concede to that first. 50/50. Not even discuss them staying with me or her full time. I would be ok with 50/50. I think THAT would be my dealbreaker.

I am not sure what her discussion with the girls was, but they seem ok with leaving with her. It is ME that they are worried about. Being alone. D11 understands. It is D6 that is having a hard to understanding. Hard for her to comprehend, of course.

I just feel so discombobulated right now. I am going to rely on our talk tonight. Put everything on the line. Total honesty talk. Talk about what she thinks of me. Talk about what she thought about church. Ask her how she felt on Saturday watching how the girls reacted. Give her a copy of smartcookies post. Let her know I understand her but not her wanting to take the girls.

Or should I even go there?

I understand that in the state of Texas,(could be everywhere, I don't know)a 12 year old can decide with whom they can live.

[LL44]

Your post made me cry for the first time in EVERYTHING I read on these boards, every day.

Yes. I agree. Wow, my stomach is in knots for you. Its hard even if you know its coming.

I am thinking of you, and your kids. God Bless your D6 when she talked about the plan not working. They love you, Daddy. You'll get through this, you guys will help each other.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

H4H,

There is nothing wrong with a 50/50 arrangement, and your kids leaving their house to go to your wife's new place, if it's part of a legal agreement.

For your wife to unilaterally make the decision to leave, and simply take them with her, is an entirely different matter.

Have you thought about a restraining order against OM being in contact with your kids? You should.

Again, I implore you to seek legal counsel. A free initial consultation, or do you have an Employee Assistance Program at work that includes any free or low-cost legal benefits? If not, then borrow from a family member if you have to -- you need to protect yourself.

Puppy

[hopeful4her]

Understood, Puppy. Thank you, again.

I have never brought up 50/50 with WW. That will be discussed tonight.

I have never thought of a restraining order against OM, but that definatly sounds like a good idea.

I have my sister working on helping me as she just started a new job with an attorney. I have had an initial consult with an attorney. She wanted 5K retainer. She also told me, and my sister has verified this, that if I do not want my kids to leave with her, I have to initiate divorce.

I do not WANT to initiate, but again, we will see how tonight goes. I will let her know that if she is unreasonable, then I will thank her for letting know what it is that I have to do.

And leave it at that.

What do ya'll think of how I'm thinking of starting the discussion.

My earlier post:

I just feel so discombobulated right now. I am going to rely on our talk tonight. Put everything on the line. Total honesty talk. Talk about what she thinks of me. Talk about what she thought about church. Ask her how she felt on Saturday watching how the girls reacted. Give her a copy of smartcookies post. Let her know I understand her but not her wanting to take the girls.

Thoughts?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Too supplicating. I would simply go with "What are you intentions regarding our marriage, and custody of the children?"

Also, do NOT let her know you're going to go for a restraining order. Just DO it. Any other terms, you can discuss ahead of time, if you both remain calm and things seem amicable. But this one will only inflame her.

[hopeful4her]

DEFINATLY won't say anything about the order. It is a protective order here in Texas. Will work on that.

Puppy, I need to be firm but I also need to be delicate on this. I know her. I need to take advantage of her guilt, if I can.

[ernest88]

hopeful

I saw your post on my thread. It will be alter tonight before I can even begin to read all your threads. My W is to arrive shortly and I want to be off this site before she gets here. I'll try to read up tonight..I'll tell you upfront, I don't know how to deal with OM..That would be a deal breaker for me. I will read up and offer up something.

[hopeful4her]

WW and I got home at the same time yesterday. No phone call from her after she got off. Haven't gotten one for about a week now. She was supposed to take D's to health club.

I spoke to D11 on the phone before I left work. I asked her how she felt about this weekend. She is sad for me. She wishes we could stay together. I tell her that sometimes mommys and daddys need some time apart to sort out their feelings for each other. I asked her what WW had told them. She said something about trying it out for seven months or so and that if they wanted to, they could move back home. D11 asked WW who was going to protect them, and WW told D's that God will protect them. That they will all have to be strong girls together.

I told D11 that I am going to talk to WW about the split time. She liked that idea. I told her that I needed time to talk to WW tonight. She was acually excited and sad at the same time about the possible move. Of course a kid is going to be excited about an apartment with a pool. My kids love it when we stay at hotels.

WW looked really tired at home. She asked D11 if they could skip health tonight. She is exhausted. She goes to change into pj's and asks D6 to lay down with her. I have to go wake up D6 at 8 to eat dinner. I leave WW asleep. She is out. She finally wakes up at 10. She asks why we didn't wake her up. She comes to sit right next to me on sofa. D's are playing with puppies. She asks, "So, whats up?" I tell her that she know what I am going to say. She says that I wanted to talk so don't beat around the bush. We have done that too much and this is where we are now. I tell her that we need to be truthful with each other.

She is upset at what happened to the bank account. She brings up the missed payments. I tell her that I am not the only one paying bills. We talk about how my check is not going into the account anymore. I tell her I am not hiding money. I tell her I pay bills from my account, too. I tell her that she seems to have some deep pockets right now. She says she is having money taken from each check. A hundred dollars a check. I knew this but dont say. I tell her that she has been spending more than that. She admits that she has access to some funds. A loan. She will pay it back. I tell her to be careful. People will expect something from her. She tells me not to worry, she is not doing anything illegal. Not having sex for money.

I'm not so sure.

So far, we are speaking ok. I am leaning in towards her. Quiet voice. We start to talk about D's. I tell her how I feel. Defenses right up. "The kids belong with thier mother." I knew that was coming. I tell her to think about what she is doing to them. This is thier home. Ultimately, she says that I cant take care of them the right way. I tell her I can. She does not know what I am capable of. She says the same to me. I feel like we are going to do the back and forth thing. D's come into living room. We have to delay the talk.

We get D's situated later with a movie. WW grabs something to eat and we move to bedroom. I pause and bring up the 50/50 split. I have to expain it. We talk about it and she asks me if I am willing to do this. I tell her it is the least that I will accept. I tell her it is not for me, but the kids. She gets defensive about this remark. "I'm not thinking about the kids. I am just being selfish?" I tell her that she has told me this before. " I know I have said that it is time to think about me. You just want to twist it though." I tell her I am just repeating what she has said.

I tell her that I am not trying to split up the family. She says the family is already splitting up because S14 is leaving us. I tell her that I am giving my opinion and not to get defensive. I tell her that it is our sitch that started him to leave. She starts to cry and that she has been holding something that I don't know about. Doesn't want me to judge him. I ask her what?

S14 believes that he is gay. Since the 5th grade. I start to tear up. I tell her that I would never judge my kids. For nothing. They are who they are. Regardless. I tell her that we always had a strange feeling. Years ago. She just found out about a month ago.

I know that WW blames me in part. Never did the go out and throw the ball around type stuff. I tell her that this didn't make him gay. People are born that way. I have to tell her not to be ignorant. My dad never did that stuff with me and I'm not gay. Thats not how it works. I have to tell her this a few times.

I tell her ONLY ignorant people think that way. I give examples. S14's dad for one. Another friend. I ask what OM thinks. I don't know why I ask. She says she doesn't care what he thinks. Why? He wouldn't think that way anyway. I tell her that OM is beneath her. She asks what I meant.

I am thinking WW is beneath me at this point, as much as I keep having to explain things to her.

She says, "Your saying he isn't good enough for me?" I say no, he isn't. "And you are?"

I tell her that there are things about me that she has learned from and things from her that I have learned from. "I have told you this a hundred times before", I say. She says not anymore. I tell her that it never ends. Never. We are quiet for a while.

We are now laying down next to each other on our stomaches talking. I ask her if she thinks if I have been with anyone else. She thinks for a while and says no. I tell her to be totally honest. Are you sure? She says no. Why? I tell her about the time I went out on a Friday. Came home late and the next day she acted upset. I told her, "The next day you went out, came home at 3:30. I know what you did that night." She rented a hotel. She is trying to remember that day. She asks me about "B". I tell her I have not been with anyone. I ask her again. She says "I wouldn't blame you if you did." I tell her I have not been with anyone. We talk a bit more and D's come in. I ask her that even though we might seperate, we are not hopeless. I keep seeing signs. I tell her about church on Sunday. I expected her to make a face. Like, "I knew you were going to say something." She didn't. I know she is thinking about it. She is taking in what I am telling her.

We are done for the night. We are all on bed. WW is tickling D6. D11 is tickling me. WW starts to stick her fingers in my ear to tickle me. I start to tickle D11. I tickle WW's neck. We are all laughing and having a good time.

Again, the good stuff is here.

D's decide to sleep on the floor in our room. Lights are out and WW and I are falling asleep and D's are giggling on floor. I touch WW on her shoulder to wake her.

Hmm.
Goodnight.
Goodnight.


I have to let WW go. We will spit time with the girls. Maybe one week at a time or two weeks at a time. I will set her free and see if she returns. I will remain loving to her while she is here. I love her enough to let her go. She will realize it someday. If not, then she is just to stubborn to admit she was wrong. I believe this. When she leaves, I will help her.

After that, no more. She will be on her own. At least emotionally. She will see.

I will see.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

A+, H4H. Well-done.

I feel hopeful about your sitch, eventually, I really do. You're doing the right things, and showing strength and character.

Puppy